What makes Hagler greater than De La Hoya??

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Explain.

Specially the bold part.....GO!

18 pages and yet I haven't seen anyone truly open my eyes in understanding what's the big deal.

Hagler was a better fighter.. Both fought great opponents, there is no way to really separate them in that regard.. Oscar has probably the best list of opponents ever hagler fought all comers for over a decade and I think hearns was the best opponent that either has beaten..both are 2 of the top 100 fighters ever..
But i rate hagler higher sense overall skill wise, I just think he was a better overall fighter
Better chin
Better power
Better stamina
Better two handed fighter
Better heart and determination

Oscar was very good, but hagler was just better IMO... That's what really separates them, not resume or achievements, but rather I think hagler would beat oscar h2h..

[Mr.Fantastic]

Hagler was a better fighter.. Both fought great opponents, there is no way to really separate them in that regard.. Oscar has probably the best list of opponents ever hagler fought all comers for over a decade and I think hearns was the best opponent that either has beaten..both are 2 of the top 100 fighters ever..
But i rate hagler higher sense overall skill wise, I just think he was a better overall fighter
Better chin
Better power
Better stamina
Better two handed fighter
Better heart and determination

Oscar was very good, but hagler was just better IMO... That's what really separates them, not resume or achievements, but rather I think hagler would beat oscar h2h..

DLH fought all comers as well in different divisions. Hagler did not have better skills. Not saying he wasn't skillful, just that DLH used his skills against better competition, where skills truly shine.

Skills can only get you so far if you don't have the resume to back it up, that shouldn't be a means of ranking someone so high. Like I said in some earlier posts, Hagler fought a lot of the times like a poor man's Chavez. That's just based on what I saw, you may disagree.

You can't really prove the heart and determination part being better. Oscar has shown that in several of his fights too, one example is the Quartey fight coming out with the heart and determination in the 12th round in edging that fight to win.

Stamina/Power(duh MW) I can understand.
Looking at stats though, Hagler has 77.61% campaigning in mostly ONE division.
Oscar on the other hand has 66.67% campaigning in MULTIPLE divisions. You know, where the guys are actually getting bigger unlike the MWs where history shows, a lot of the fights are dependent on WWs/JrMWs moving up.

No shit Hagler would most likely win against Oscar, he's a damn MW! Oscar was never a MW to begin with and it's his weakest division. Boxers shouldn't get credit for fantasy fight match ups.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

DLH fought all comers as well in different divisions. Hagler did not have better skills. Not saying he wasn't skillful, just that DLH used his skills against better competition, where skills truly shine.

Skills can only get you so far if you don't have the resume to back it up, that shouldn't be a means of ranking someone so high. Like I said in some earlier posts, Hagler fought a lot of the times like a poor man's Chavez. That's just based on what I saw, you may disagree.

You can't really prove the heart and determination part being better. Oscar has shown that in several of his fights too, one example is the Quartey fight coming out with the heart and determination in the 12th round in edging that fight to win.

Stamina/Power(duh MW) I can understand.
Looking at stats though, Hagler has 77.61% campaigning in mostly ONE division.
Oscar on the other hand has 66.67% campaigning in MULTIPLE divisions. You know, where the guys are actually getting bigger unlike the MWs where history shows, a lot of the fights are dependent on WWs/JrMWs moving up.

No shit Hagler would most likely win against Oscar, he's a damn MW! Oscar was never a MW to begin with and it's his weakest division. Boxers shouldn't get credit for fantasy fight match ups.

When I talk about h2h I mean if they the same size, like p4p. I realize in real life hagler would be way too big and it would be a mismatch..

I just feel hagler is the better fighter.. Both are great and I don't have some sort of formula to prove that hagler is better, I'm just going by what I see in the ring from both guys..
Prime vs prime oscar would have a very tough time with haglers jab and his ability to switch from righty to southpaw. Much like how Ike bothered and battered oscar, I can only imagine how hagler would batter oscar with his sledgehammer jab, and Marvin has a granite chin and wouldn't get dropped like quartey did, and factor in that hagler is a bigger puncher than Ike, and I think he would just be too much for oscar.. That's why I rank him higher

[Cardinal Buck]

Fair post IMO

Delahoya's Career -

135 -
Ruelas
Hernandez
Molina
Leija

140 -
Gonzalez
Chavez

147 -
Whitaker
Quartey
Rivera
Carr

154 -
Vargas
Castijello
Mosley
Campas

160
Sturm

Olympic Gold Medalist, 5 weight champ.

Hagler's Career -

Minter
Mugabi
Hearns
Hamsho
Roldan
Antuofuermo
Monroe
Duran



Delahoya stacks up very well. People just like to rag on him for his losses.

De La Hoya also did some work at 130. The other two guys to division climb like that in recent times are Pac and Floyd (and less successfully, Toney) which is obviously elite company.

[dynomyte1444]

ill give you an example.

My younger brother started watching boxing for the last couple years. He started to watch some of the older guys like hagler and hearns.

The first thing he says to me is damn these guys dont look as skilled as todays fighters.

Now i know better than that but skill wise de la hoya is a gold medalist and i would put him above hagler in skills but hagler is higher on the list for resume and winning the bigger fights.


but this is almost the same argument i had with someone when i said that skill for skill floyd stands above ray robinson. Ive watched film on ray and hes not gonna beat floyd.

Its rediculous to think todays fighters cant beat the greats

[titanium]

I wonder why someone that knows anything about boxing would ask this question.

[New England]

accomplishments and ability. he was a more able fighter who accomplished more.


anybody who thinks hagler is less skilled than oscar is an idiot.

[New England]

ill give you an example.

My younger brother started watching boxing for the last couple years. He started to watch some of the older guys like hagler and hearns.

The first thing he says to me is damn these guys dont look as skilled as todays fighters.

Now i know better than that but skill wise de la hoya is a gold medalist and i would put him above hagler in skills but hagler is higher on the list for resume and winning the bigger fights.


but this is almost the same argument i had with someone when i said that skill for skill floyd stands above ray robinson. Ive watched film on ray and hes not gonna beat floyd.

Its rediculous to think todays fighters cant beat the greats

robinson's filmed work is mostly in the 1950's, and at middleweight. there are some clips of his welterweight work bouncing around. the quality isn't great, and the fights havn't been fullies from what i have seen.

lets see how floyd looks after 90 fights and at middleweight.


robinson wasn't the skilled boxer and defensive specialist that mayweather is. nobody who knows historic boxing will argue that. he's one of the hardest punchers ever, and had perhaps the greatest chin of all time. you can make up for defensive shortcomings when you have one punch power and the greatest chin of all time. Robinson wasn't as hard to hit as floyd. it didn't matter. he's a more able fighter with a much better resume.

robinson is definitely not getting rocked by shane mosley.

[FeFist]

Winning the big fights he was a part of.

[Ham Porter]

Hagler would stalk down De La Hoya from the opening bell and pound him to the body and head. No way De La Hoya makes it the full distance unless he runs the whole fight.

Funny how these little hypothetical matchups never involve Hagler fighting someone from the higher weight classes, isn't it? It's always some welterweight thrown in there with Hagler.


I somehow doubt Hagler would be perceived as so dominant if he ever took a risk and fought guys like Spinks and Qawi. Or even a better, more talent rich division, for that matter (the late 80's/early 90's, for example.)