Robert Garcia overrated?

[-PBP-]

You sig got me dyin'

[NearHypnos]

Mikey is not at the top. He's got skill but again, your speed, power and skills are all tested when you face better guys. When you face better guys often you DO NOT look at class as you did.

Marg lost to Cotto easy in a rematch.
Rios lost to Abril (He did) and Alvarado who aren't the best.
Donaire has looked **** under Garcia, don't forgot some other fights such as Narvaez. Garcia has not taught him how to cut the ring off properly to this day.

Zab is better than Rios. Straight up achieved more and did well VS Danny. Rios can't deal with speed, or anyone who moves a bit.
Maidana is better than Rios.
Kotelnik may even be better than Rios. Koltenik could box his ass off better than Abril. Alvarado boxed and won, Kotelnik could box.
Honestly, even Paulie could beat Rios. Speed would make him look like a heavy bag again and Paulie is tough as ****. Rios and his power to KO Paulie? Nah I don't think so.

Rios aint draining himself to look like a damn skeleton fighting small guys now. He is at a weight he should be.

Marg lost fairly convincingly vs Cotto but was coming on strong. Rios did lose to Abril and his cagey defense (Abril is no scrub). The guys you mention dont have the style to be able to stand inside like Abril did to negate everything with dat shoulder. I wouldn't feel comfortable in a Kotelnik fight with Rios. Paulie can box but you forget the Cano fight. Paulie doesnt have the pop to keep determined guys off (Hatton, Cotto, Cano, Kahn, Broner). Paulie may be tough as s hit but he can be stopped and hurt. At this stage in his career I wouldnt pick Paulie over Rios no matter how limited Rios is. And Zab IS a better fighter...on paper. But it's Zab (Im a huge Zab fan borderline nut hugger) but he hates it to the body. He also doesnt handle pressure THAT well and i he lets his hands go for a full 12 rounds hed beat almost anyone (Garcia included apparently) but he doesnt.

And I feel the criticism towards Mikey is indair. What i mean is he is the top. Who's going to test him aside from what, Gamboa? Its not his fault hes in the division hes in.

Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and say robert has taught Donaire to cut off the ring. Hell, Donaire probably was taught as a kid...one thing is knowing another is applying. Again, Donaire is notoriously stubborn. Donaire looked "bad" vs Narvaez but dominated that fight. Look at pac vs shane... How uncomfortable he looked. Pac vs Bradley when Bradley had enough of being beat down and was boxing at the end. Or him being constantly lead into counters by JMM (sure these are all great fighters) so again...knowing an applying are different.

Prov is an exmple. Look at all the punches he takes? He still applies what he can do, even if hes limited in other areas. You think they dont stress for him to get hit less? A tiger cant change his stripes no matter the trainer. It's not always about what a trainer seems to not have done.. It often is what the fighter didnt do. There's a reason a high percent of losses start with the loser usually saying "I wasnt listening to my corner or followed what we worked on"

[prolific]

Gracias not overrated. If rios came in there like he has in the past it would have been hatton all over again. I think he saved rios and told him only to throw after getting him close. It would have been ugly for rios any other way.

[Los Zetas]

Marg lost fairly convincingly vs Cotto but was coming on strong. Rios did lose to Abril and his cagey defense (Abril is no scrub). The guys you mention dont have the style to be able to stand inside like Abril did to negate everything with dat shoulder. I wouldn't feel comfortable in a Kotelnik fight with Rios. Paulie can box but you forget the Cano fight. Paulie doesnt have the pop to keep determined guys off (Hatton, Cotto, Cano, Kahn, Broner). Paulie may be tough as s hit but he can be stopped and hurt. At this stage in his career I wouldnt pick Paulie over Rios no matter how limited Rios is. And Zab IS a better fighter...on paper. But it's Zab (Im a huge Zab fan borderline nut hugger) but he hates it to the body. He also doesnt handle pressure THAT well and i he lets his hands go for a full 12 rounds hed beat almost anyone (Garcia included apparently) but he doesnt.

And I feel the criticism towards Mikey is indair. What i mean is he is the top. Who's going to test him aside from what, Gamboa? Its not his fault hes in the division hes in.

Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and say robert has taught Donaire to cut off the ring. Hell, Donaire probably was taught as a kid...one thing is knowing another is applying. Again, Donaire is notoriously stubborn. Donaire looked "bad" vs Narvaez but dominated that fight. Look at pac vs shane... How uncomfortable he looked. Pac vs Bradley when Bradley had enough of being beat down and was boxing at the end. Or him being constantly lead into counters by JMM (sure these are all great fighters) so again...knowing an applying are different.

Prov is an exmple. Look at all the punches he takes? He still applies what he can do, even if hes limited in other areas. You think they dont stress for him to get hit less? A tiger cant change his stripes no matter the trainer. It's not always about what a trainer seems to not have done.. It often is what the fighter didnt do. There's a reason a high percent of losses start with the loser usually saying "I wasnt listening to my corner or followed what we worked on"

Not that I have seen Garcia train his fighters, but after watching every episode of his reality show and all (99% because I enjoy boxing videos as a pass time and interviews) of Ellie's videos, I have not seen Robert work on footwork at all. I haven't seen footwork drills.

No ropes in the middle of the ring for head movement. Defence is neglected incredibly there as well as footwork.

He watches his fighters do heavy bag work.
He wraps hands.
He does mitt work.
He use to drive them everywhere to beaches, gyms, events etc... or even drive to SF to Donaire but now he is too big time for that.

Koltenik may struggle with certain fighters, but he would have beaten Rios IMO. He took Maidana's best shots and IMO lost, but IMO I feel that he would have taken Rios. Rios is very slow and predictable, and his combinations are almost one way while Maidana has a bit more speed and IMO pop.
I really feel Kotelnik could have jabbed Rios and boxed his ears off.
The way Kotelnik boxed Alexander is a testament to his skills.

Paulie did do terrible VS Cano. However I feel that he may have taken it lightly while he took Broner very serious. He does lose but look at the guys he lost to. Cotto HOF. Hatton Possible. Khan a few good wins from possible. Broner may be a future star and HOF, who knows.

I would pick Paulie over Rios at 147. Paulie has a nice jab and speed, and uses his footwork. Rios needs to set to be effective and that 1 second is enough to make him think and reset and by the 12th it's over. You can physically see him think when he resets, and his stamina is **** down the stretch. Alvarado changed one thing, he used MORE movement with a jab and his movement wasn't even that much, but he beat Rios. Alvarado may have hurt Rios but power isn't what stops Rios, his chin is solid anyway.

Zab would make Rios look like Vernon Paris. Zab's body movement, speed and style is all wrong for Rios my man. He may not be a full 12 round engined fighter, but he has the speed to land on Rios easily. Zab is one tough MOFO and again I don't think Rios KO's him. Rios is use to fighting guys who are 130 to 135 usually. He has only recently gone up where his power isn't KO'ing guys. He even said it in the first Alvarado fight, something along the lines of "You saw how much I had to hit him to take him out" when asked how 140 felt power wise. I don't think at 147 his power is enough to KO these guys. It's boxing, when you step up fights tend to last 12 rounds, be it better defences or chins. Rios also hardly throws to the body from my memory, he is a clear head hunter.

Garcia plans to move up to 135 and even 140. He will be tested in a year or 2 I feel. I am a skeptic and always wait until a guy who looks great steps up to a guy that he may not beat or at least is very good. That is for me a test of where I truly rank a guy.



Prod is stressed to not take so many shots I agree, and Roach was close to stopping the Bradley fight too, but the way he cuts the ring off and the tragetarry (sp) of his shots to land the power is very good. He had a better fight VS Bradley than JMM did. He beat Alvarado better than Rios did, and that was an Alvarado who boxed too. Roach has taught him some combinations and some head/body movement to get in close and then land. Not every fighter will learn or do great, but with what he has, he trains them for their best assetts.

For example Khan is long, fast and athletic so he made him use the jab A LOT more (Worked on getting power to it) and taught him angles of hook and getting out. Khan with his old trainers would have lost to the guys he beat.
Willie Limond nearly knocked him out... Khan fired Ariza and didn't have much time with Roach when he got KTFO by Garcia. He was ****** and in a training clip with an Amateur was getting tagged by hooks easily. Sadly Khan is dumb.

For Pac he made him better by adding a right hook, a straight left and much more boxing skills footwork wise. The early Pac had a one two, very good but that was it. Now Pac can hit with both sides just as fast at any stage almost in his transistion on his feet.

Chavez Jnr I am not sure wth is happening. The guy obviously doesn't have the heart to train. I saw that he uses his size well VS some fighters that he can trap on the ropes. I am not sure how much time he has with Roach (24 7 osuggested not a lot) but Chavez Jnr is a bum and sadly doesn't go gym everyday. Heck he doesn't even train out of the damn sitting room... Rios from the Ellie videos was in the gym everyday almost for 5 months...

Zou Shiming has improved a lot since he debut. I saw him in the Olympics, he was OK. In 3 fights his balance is better. His pop and sitting on his shots is better. He seemed to know how to handle things when he threw shots too, ducking out the way too.

Roach uses sparring partners perfectly too. He gets in the right guys for the job. Some of them pretty good too. Robert isn't on that level yet in his selection. Some for speed, some for power, some for pressure, some for their defence... some just for confidence.

Don't get me wrong, Robert is a good trainer, but people are saying trainer of the year?

Honestly the way Floyd handled Guererro and Canelo, senior should take that spot. He got Floyd to boxing so much more smoothly. IMO Victor wouldn't even have Floyd on the ropes to headbutt. Cotto would not have busted his nose either.

[Los Zetas]

You sig got me dyin'

Cheer bro LOL

[BendOver]

Imo garcia is a very good fighter that hasn't face top competition in their prime, salido for instance was coming from three very hard fights, two with lopez and one with Gamboa, still he was taking garcia into deep waters when the accident happened, and it show that if he is in trouble he probably will cave in

[TonitosWay]

Robert Garcia doesn't impose his style on anyone but Mikey Garcia; the rest he just brushes up on their already established ring identity which can sometimes not be what's best.

This just my opinion tho

[Cinci Champ]

ya the only one he trained from beginning was mikey garcia and his skills speak for themselves

[Sugar Adam Ali]

i have never seen him coach in the gym,, never had personal contact with him in that regards,, so i dont know if he is good or not,,

[-Kev-]

Trainers are overrated for the most part. You either have it in you or you don't.

Trainers are great for mental breakdowns, or like a father-figure trainer. Examples are D'Amato and Tyson, Hunter and Ward, Peterson and Williams.

You guys really think Mayweather, Hopkins, Rigondeaux, Whitaker, prime Jones, etc needed trainers as pros? All they needed was experience, but they learned their craft all by themselves through experience, they had the athleticism and high ring IQ naturally.

I learned to box by watching boxing, I never had a trainer in my life. When I went to the gym the first time, people in the gym asked me what gym did I boxed in before and I said none, they asked me how did I learned to throw punches like that and hit the punching bag properly, I just said by myself. I was 13 and with no resources or support from parents whatsoever. So imagine these guys who already know how to box and have support from father figure trainers and get support and get pushed to become boxers, they don't need trainers.