Sergio Martinez is Slick?

[ImStillHere]

Is Sergio (and yes I mean a prime sergio) a slick fighter? Was he ever slick?

I'm starting to think he wasn't, that Lou Dibella invented the Martinez myth by careful matchmaking. I mean it's not like he was a hit from early on like Cotto and Floyd. He lost to Margarito, who if he IS a slick counter punching southpaw, was always tailor made for him.

Not that it's his losses that make me say this but how he performed in them and his wins. He is ALWAYS hit FLUSH. Even in probably his best performance ever against Pavlik (who may or may not have been 100%) he was dropped. He won the first Williams fight in my eyes but it was a war. Contrast that to how easily Lara handled Williams. We all know what happened in the second fight would never happen again if they fought 100 times, it was just one of them punches.

Not slating Martinez it's just that I don't think he is that slick. I'll be berated with insults for this BUT I think Billy Joe Saunders is a better slick, defensive type fighter than Martinez who is too easily led into a war. Not saying he's a better fighter(though I think he could prove to be) but better in the art of hitting without being hit.

What do you guy think about this? and the stigma about white fighters not being slick and more over black fighters presumed to be slick when they clearly aren't

[WilkinsOlajuwon]

Maybe he's not "slick" in your personal terms or whatever...but he's not a myth.

[THE REED]

Slick is subjective, it's not a fact or fiction.

But given by my terms of slickness, sly footwork, good head movement, good speed, can swim without getting wet... he's decently slick... his slickness is depleting though.

[AgainstTheRopes]

Slick is subjective, it's not a fact or fiction.

But given by my terms of slickness, sly footwork, good head movement, good speed, can swim without getting wet... he's decently slick... his slickness is depleting though.

I agree completely

[Doctor_Tenma]

It's surprising how many boxing fans don't know what slick is. Slick is being able to set your opponent up through baiting, it's really that simple. It's to show 'em one thing and give them another.

[Light_Speed]

He won the first Williams fight in my eyes but it was a war. Contrast that to how easily Lara handled Williams. We all know what happened in the second fight would never happen again if they fought 100 times, it was just one of them punches.

That sentence tells me you don't understand much about boxing. Martinez figured out one of Williams' weaknesses and tried to catch him with that shot repeatedly before finally landing it. It wasn't luck, it was intelligence and timing.

As far as Martinez being slick, people have different definitions of "slick", I think he has an athletic style but he doesn't have a lot of slickness per se.

[gmc_rfc_06]

Sergio was very athletic and pretty slick, but he's losing it fast.

About him getting hit, that's as much about his willingness to trade as it is about his style. Billie Joe Saunders is already looking average at domestic level and getting hit, when he steps up, it'll be easy to see how far from slick he is.

[ImStillHere]

That sentence tells me you don't understand much about boxing. Martinez figured out one of Williams' weaknesses and tried to catch him with that shot repeatedly before finally landing it. It wasn't luck, it was intelligence and timing.

As far as Martinez being slick, people have different definitions of "slick", I think he has an athletic style but he doesn't have a lot of slickness per se.

Get of your high horse. What I meant was it would be highly unlikely that he would catch Paul coming in , committing himself and getting hit clean with a punch he didn't see coming again. That is alot of varibles, even Paul had seeing the punch before it landed would take a lot out of the punch. I exaggerated of course with the 100 fights but I stand by my point.

The definition of slick is " done or operating in a smooth and efficient way" Ill agree that that definition does fit Martinez's fight style. But slickness in boxing has come to mean slippery, hard to pin down and against good fighters Martinez has never looked like this.

You can call it age, but he wasn't old against JR when he looked great fighting a zombie, but when Murray dropped him and was robbed he's old all of a sudden? Are people not taking it account how much better Murray is than JR? He was ripped off against Sturm and is undefeated bar the rip of against Sergio

[BafanaBafana]

Is Sergio (and yes I mean a prime sergio) a slick fighter? Was he ever slick?

I'm starting to think he wasn't, that Lou Dibella invented the Martinez myth by careful matchmaking. I mean it's not like he was a hit from early on like Cotto and Floyd. He lost to Margarito, who if he IS a slick counter punching southpaw, was always tailor made for him.

The Margarito fight took place in 2000 (Feb. 19), Sergio had only been a pro for 2 years (went pro at age 22-23) and that was his first fight outside of Argentina (also his 16th fight). Margarito had been a pro for 6 years (w/25 fights, 12 in the U.S.) and was only a year away from his first title fight. A bit like Rosado and other fighters who make it from the bottom, he was a part time boxer who had to work several jobs to sustain his boxing career.

Not that it's his losses that make me say this but how he performed in them and his wins. He is ALWAYS hit FLUSH. Even in probably his best performance ever against Pavlik (who may or may not have been 100%) he was dropped. He won the first Williams fight in my eyes but it was a war. Contrast that to how easily Lara handled Williams. We all know what happened in the second fight would never happen again if they fought 100 times, it was just one of them punches.

Sergio is actually not that easy to hit. If you watch most of his fights there's usually a pattern, he looks excellent in the first 4 rounds were he hardly get's touched, then he takes a break in the middle rounds (this is where he usually get's hit) and then finishes very strong in the championship rounds.

In the first four rounds, against Pavlik he outlanded Kelly 61-38 and closed strong in the last 4 outlanding him 112-51. Against Cintron, he only got hit 103 times over 12 rounds, against Bunema he got hit 31 times over 8 rounds, against Macklin 134 over 11 rounds, against Chavez Jr (prior to the last 2 rounds) Sergio only hit 113 times over 10 rounds. Keep in mind that a very good defensive fighter like Andre Ward (in a division with a lower punch output) got hit over 200 times by Sakio Bika (17 punches per round) and only outlanded Abraham 178-158.

I don't see Sergio as a very good (or slick) defensive fighter, he's lateral movement is best for lowering his opponents output by keeping them out of range and/or forcing them the reset their offense; his head movement is also pretty good. I do think he is offensively slick though and very good at setting up counterpunches, hitting his opponents flush when they miss and catching them as their coming in w/punches they don't see.

Sergio hurt Williams pretty badly badly in the first fight (dropped him pretty hard), prior to KO'ing Williams in the second time he had been landing the counter overhand left several times. Williams fought Lara right after the brutal Martinez KO, Lara is not the type of fighter you want for a comeback tune-up. Even then it was a competitive fight and Lara's face showed damage (baseball-sized bump). Under the same premise you could argue that Lara isn't slick because he was getting hit flush by Angulo.

Not slating Martinez it's just that I don't think he is that slick. I'll be berated with insults for this BUT I think Billy Joe Saunders is a better slick, defensive type fighter than Martinez who is too easily led into a war. Not saying he's a better fighter(though I think he could prove to be) but better in the art of hitting without being hit.

I think Sergio is much more offensively slick than he is defensively slick. His defense is not that bad though, unlike other counter-punching movers like Lara, Vasquez, Linares, etc. Sergio can fight on the inside and fight off the ropes (on the very few occasions he's had to). Saunders is not 'slicker' than Sergio, I'm sure he'd get he'd get hit more if he fought Sergio's level of opposition.

And you only get "berated with insults" on this site when you criticize Mayweather or Mexican fighters.

[ImStillHere]

Sergio was very athletic and pretty slick, but he's losing it fast.

About him getting hit, that's as much about his willingness to trade as it is about his style. Billie Joe Saunders is already looking average at domestic level and getting hit, when he steps up, it'll be easy to see how far from slick he is.

Looking average against who? He has no power but he is a beautiful boxer. If your talking about the Ryder fight, we don't know how far he will go. Maybe Ryder is that good too. You clearly don't know what your talking about. Where was Sergio when he was 24? well?