Is there an argument for Hopkins to be top 10-15 ATG?

[thuggery]

Absolutely not, he's overrated and refuses to fight anyone that requests for random testing. He's on something.

[J The UnBiased]

If ATG stands for "**** Taking Geriatric" then he's number 1.

that was funny

[Drunk Punch]

Trouble is the 90s was an era when all the best MWs avoided each other.
To be a top ten ATG he should have fought prime RJJ, McLellan, Toney, Benn, Eubank etc.

He will be an ATG for his achievements and longevity anyways, but I don't think he compares with the best MWs of all time.

[No.]

He holds records for most successful consecutive defenses of world titles (27), most title fights (37), most title-fight victories (31) and he is after Joe Louis with (23) for most title defenses won by knockout (21).

Please. Spare me the out of context, heavily padded stats. Similar arguments could be used to anoint the likes of Chris John, Joe Calzaghe, Virgil Hill & Sven Ottke as ATG's.

His top 5-10 career best wins are laughable compared to most consensus top 25 ATG's. Not one single signature win over an ATG. Plain & Simple, he belongs nowhere near a top 25 ATG list. Not even top 50 really.

Chávez also has the longest undefeated streak in boxing history, 13 years.

Yeah, mostly compiled against part-time door-to-door boiled turnip salesman.

[Drunk Punch]

Duran, Robinson, Hagler, Monzon, Leonard, Hearns, Chavez, RJJ, LaMotta, Graziano, Papp Just off the top of my head.

[No.]

Trouble is the 90s was an era when all the best MWs avoided each other.
To be a top ten ATG he should have fought prime RJJ, McLellan, Toney, Benn, Eubank etc.

He will be an ATG for his achievements and longevity anyways, but I don't think he compares with the best MWs of all time.

I think Hopkins would've got notoriety alot quicker in his career and secured better quality fights with that early 90's deep Middleweight/Super Middleweight field if he had been matched against any of the other title holders in his 1st step up fight and avoided facing Roy Jones. I think he would've stomped Julian Jackson and beat Reggie Johnson in '93. This would've likely would've raised his profile and made him a more attractive target to the top guys like McClellan, Toney, McCallum Nunn, Benn, Eubank etc.

Damn shame the majority of these guys didn't fight eachother. The 90's is when promotional/alphabet soup/network politics started to spiral completely out of control. And ruined some of the best potential fights in boxing.

[MisterHardtop]

20 title defenses at Middleweight=most ever at middleweight

Oldest Lineal champion ever

Oldest fighter to ever win a major title

Oldest fighter to ever defend a major title

The answer would be no.

I made a list a few years ago, a top 100 of the greatest fighters in my life time, which will feature in an upcoming book and has featured in publications before, had Hopkins ranked at 12. If I was to stretch my list to include fighters in the 30-40 years before my birth, Hopkins would most likely drop down to 30.

The reason is because of a lack of real quality opponents in his reign as champion, the middleweight division was very weak at the time. He also lost to Roy Jones in his first title fight. Then there are the losses to sub par opponents in Jermain Taylor which will be held against him.

Hopkins resurgence in the second half of his career is truly remarkable, beating men such as Tarver, Pascal and so on but none of these names are great, although they did hold onto major titles during their careers.

Bhops longevity is a thing to be marveled at and will never be forgotten but when looking at the grand scheme of things, considering boxing from the early 20th century to today, he can not rank as a top 10 or 15 boxer. He does not have the strength of names on his win list or the exquisite skill of predecessors.

[Bushbaby]

He sure can. But an opinion won't be accepted by everyone.

[New England]

f#ck no, larry.


listen to your reasoning. defenses of a MW alphabet title a decade ago (only becoming lineal champion after beating trinidad.)

being old?


what the f#ck does any of that have to do with the p4p list?



edit:
i thought you said top 10-15 p4p.


to answer the question regarding his status as a 10-15 ATG, no f#cking way. not even close. he has longevity, but where are the bonafide great wins? few and far between, if any.

[-PBP-]

Meh. I prefer to rank by era. When doing that he's in the top 3.