My Top 20 All Time

[InSaiyan]

It's ok to be a Hopkins fan and not think he is top 20. I'm a huge Hopkins fan. People need to really have a word with themselves about what being an accomplished top 20 fighter really means, in the grand scheme..... Its huge.

Even the top 10 of all time is honestly impossible to crack. We'll all be dead and gone and I think the names like Ben Leonard, Armstrong, etc. will be there to stay.

Floyd was the last modern fighter with a chance to crack a top 20 list IMO and he wuld've done it had he fought Manny, a more prime Cotto and fought and beat Martinez when he was hot.

Now I don't think anyone ever will make it in the future.

[LacedUp]

I agree that Julio Cesar Chavez could be in the top 20 (not top 10 though) although it is certainly questionable. I'd find it very hard to rank Chavez without having Whitaker near him in the rankings much like how I feel about Mayweather and Pacquiao. Chavez would probably be between about 15-30 for me with Whitaker either a place or two higher or lower than him.

No not top 10.

It was my first crack at a top 20 for a long long time and by analysing it further, I made some big mistakes. Langford should have been higher on my list. Completely forgot about Charles, though he's one of my favourite fighters from the time.

JCC should probably have been a bit lower etc etc.

I don't think Whitaker is as high, but I get the point. He was never my favourite fighter. I also don't think his resume is anywhere near as deep as JCC.

[IronDanHamza]

JCC has a very underrestimated resume on here it seems to me. I definitely feel his resume is top 20 worthy, combined with his activity and dominance.

His win over Martinez who had knocked out Castanon and Navarette at the age of 18 or something was a sublime win to me. He was also #1 at the time. Then you can add an undefeated Cortes, Aguilar, a slightly past his prime, but nevertheless ATG Camacho, Alli the #1 contender who had some great wins on his resume too.

I also think his win over Haugen in front of what I believe to still be the biggest crowd for a boxing match ever, Meldrick Taylor AND Roger Mayweather!

But his best win of all was probably the upset of the time, against Rosario.

Ultimately, I think he warrants a place amongst the top 20.

Maybe his big wins were a dime a dozen, but if you want to fight 5-10 times a year, there's got to be some less known fighters there.

On which Planet is Hector Camcho an ATG? Because it's not this one.

I'm not dis*****g Chavez is an ATG fighter. Not for a second.

But look at how you just broke it down. Look at his best wins that you highlighted, Rosario, Taylor, Roger Mayweather, Haugen, etc. How about you put those wins against any of the 20 fighters I listed. I don't think it's going to stack up well.

Chavez has a good resume, a ATG one considering his consistency, his run, and beating all the best guys available accross multiple weight classes.

But again, just look again at the resume you just broke down. It's so clearly not Top 20 calibur.

[IronDanHamza]

Do you think Floyd Mayweather is top 30?

No, I don't.

[Humean]

On which Planet is Hector Camcho an ATG? Because it's not this one.

I'm not dis*****g Chavez is an ATG fighter. Not for a second.

But look at how you just broke it down. Look at his best wins that you highlighted, Rosario, Taylor, Roger Mayweather, Haugen, etc. How about you put those wins against any of the 20 fighters I listed. I don't think it's going to stack up well.

Chavez has a good resume, a ATG one considering his consistency, his run, and beating all the best guys available accross multiple weight classes.

But again, just look again at the resume you just broke down. It's so clearly not Top 20 calibur.

What is your definition of an ATG? People always say this or that fighter is or is not an ATG but what is the criteria? Top 100 all time pound for pound? Top 10 or top 20 in division? I'm not going to dispute that Camacho isn't an ATG but things get very misleading when people argue in this way. The Camacho win was a very significant win, not just because of Camacho's quality but also because he battered the living hell out of him. I think the magnitude of the manner of victory in fights is underrated when people talk so much about resume. Just a thought.

[LacedUp]

On which Planet is Hector Camcho an ATG? Because it's not this one.

I'm not dis*****g Chavez is an ATG fighter. Not for a second.

But look at how you just broke it down. Look at his best wins that you highlighted, Rosario, Taylor, Roger Mayweather, Haugen, etc. How about you put those wins against any of the 20 fighters I listed. I don't think it's going to stack up well.

Chavez has a good resume, a ATG one considering his consistency, his run, and beating all the best guys available accross multiple weight classes.

But again, just look again at the resume you just broke down. It's so clearly not Top 20 calibur.

ATG material* - I think he'd pass for a top 50-100 of all times. I'm not sure. I think he has some great wins and some great nights. Combined with his style and reign as P4P numero uno I think he deserves a place amongst top 20. Just the activity sets him aside from the modern fighters, and if I had to have one other than Duran he'd be there.

Regardless, my list was made pretty quickly. I could dissect it a little further and come back with an updated list.

[IronDanHamza]

What is your definition of an ATG? People always say this or that fighter is or is not an ATG but what is the criteria? Top 100 all time pound for pound? Top 10 or top 20 in division? I'm not going to dispute that Camacho isn't an ATG but things get very misleading when people argue in this way. The Camacho win was a very significant win, not just because of Camacho's quality but also because he battered the living hell out of him. I think the magnitude of the manner of victory in fights is underrated when people talk so much about resume. Just a thought.

I always based my ATG criteria on the fighters I would consider amongst the Top 100.

Now, I extend it a little because it's increasing.

Camacho's a good fighter and arguably a HOF'er. He's not even close to an ATG.

[IronDanHamza]

ATG material* - I think he'd pass for a top 50-100 of all times. I'm not sure. I think he has some great wins and some great nights. Combined with his style and reign as P4P numero uno I think he deserves a place amongst top 20. Just the activity sets him aside from the modern fighters, and if I had to have one other than Duran he'd be there.

Regardless, my list was made pretty quickly. I could dissect it a little further and come back with an updated list.

Not even close, my man. Not even close.

Chavez would make it in the popularity column as there's not many in my lifetime as popular as Chavez was in his day.

But if we look at it for what he did in Boxing, populariy aside. He's not close to Top 20. He's not 50 no question. Not sure where but he's definitely not at the tail end of 50, if you understand me.

Like I said, look at the short breakdown of his resume that you did and compare it to the other guys on your list.

[Humean]

I always based my ATG criteria on the fighters I would consider amongst the Top 100.

Now, I extend it a little because it's increasing.

Camacho's a good fighter and arguably a HOF'er. He's not even close to an ATG.

OK we're on the same page then as I think in the same way. Camacho would be top 200 though?

[IronDanHamza]

OK we're on the same page then as I think in the same way. Camacho would be top 200 though?

I'm really not sure