Can you be considered an ATG when these are your 10 best wins?

[JAB5239]

Jabs,

what do you value more, beating someone into retirement/ them never being the same fighter again OR beating a fighter and them going on to achieve more great things like nothing ever happened?

There are two problems here my friend. First, Who can say with any surety who was or wasn't beaten into retirement...meaning they physically or mentally could not go on. Second, even if that was the case how high a regard can you really hold that if they hadn't done much at heavyweight to begin with?

As to your question I would say I value a fighter who overcomes adversity, doesn't quit and goes on to keep achieving even if he isn't the very best

[Frank Ducketts]

I'm not obsessed with your life, fat bald and old as you are. I am actually, in fact, convinced that my life is more beautiful than yours. I don't wish anything bad for you though. You should just stop hating on Vitali, a man who is amazing and has accomplished so much more than you in life.

What a trash response. This might be the dumbest post on this site to date. What makes you think that you AND Vitali have a better life than JAB, AND accomplished more? How would you even know this? What is a better life? You've just conceded that you have no argument for this poster. JAB, I had a guy tell me earlier that he owns a bar, and that I stay in my moms basement. WTF is the world coming to, lmao.

[cupocity303]

There are two problems here my friend. First, Who can say with any surety who was or wasn't beaten into retirement...meaning they physically or mentally could not go on. Second, even if that was the case how high a regard can you really hold that if they hadn't done much at heavyweight to begin with?

As to your question I would say I value a fighter who overcomes adversity, doesn't quit and goes on to keep achieving even if he isn't the very best

Yes, it's subjective. Prince Hamed or Tito Trinidad retiring after the dominant beatings they took at the hands of Barrera/Hopkins can pretty much be credited to Hopkins and Barrera, with 90% certainty, IMO. Those are the standard barriers in my book.

But my question wasn't about the 'losers' overcoming the beating they took or retiring, but about the 'winners'.

I.E. which looks better: Sultan Ibragimov never fighting again after losing to Wlad or Tony Thompson still being undefeated against fighters not-named-Klitschko; beating up and coming contenders/prospects.

[JAB5239]

Yes, it's subjective. Prince Hamed or Tito Trinidad retiring after the dominant beatings they took at the hands of Barrera/Hopkins can pretty much be credited to Hopkins and Barrera, with 90% certainty, IMO. Those are the standard barriers in my book.

But my question wasn't about the 'losers' overcoming the beating they took or retiring, but about the 'winners'.

I.E. which looks better: Sultan Ibragimov never fighting again after losing to Wlad or Tony Thompson still being undefeated against fighters not-named-Klitschko; beating up and coming contenders/prospects.

Thompson looks better, though I wish he was fighting more top guys. If he beats Pulev that will be a strong statement.

[cupocity303]

Thompson looks better, though I wish he was fighting more top guys. If he beats Pulev that will be a strong statement.

Thanks to this post, I just looked at his boxrec. He is indeed fighting Pulev next; I love it.

Too many undefeated guys around for Wlad to consider. This is a good test to see how good Pulev is. Puelev's three fight win streak looks good, part of it being that he eliminated another 6'7 undefeated giant out of the equation. Too many of these springing up if you ask me.

[HWChampion]

Shavers landing that right on Wlad? Probably look something like this >>>>>

Shavers power is very very overrated.

[Poet682006]

Shavers power is very very overrated.

Why is it that everyone I've seen claim that is a Brit? :thinking9: Bear in mind I defended Frank Bruno's punching power from someone who claimed it was overrated.

PS. Forgot to put Bruno on my favorite UK fighters list.

Poet

[hitman smax]

Funny, I don't see "Busted up Lennox Lewis for several rounds and then couldn't get a rematch with him to save my life" on there.

Weird.

[JAB5239]

Thanks to this post, I just looked at his boxrec. He is indeed fighting Pulev next; I love it.

Too many undefeated guys around for Wlad to consider. This is a good test to see how good Pulev is. Puelev's three fight win streak looks good, part of it being that he eliminated another 6'7 undefeated giant out of the equation. Too many of these springing up if you ask me.

People put to much stock in being "undefeated". Take Pianeta for instance, he built his record on stiffs and old men. Same thing with Wach. I got no problem with Pulev. He's still a little green in the pro ranks but he is steadily improving his competition much the way Helenius was before getting injured. Should Thompson take that scalp (a 50/50 fight in my opinion) he's probably the best fighter at heavyweight not named Klitschko and just makes Wlad look that much better. A third fight would be for naught though since Wlad has twice handle him pretty easily. A Vits fight would make perfect sense though and can only improve Vittles standing if he were to win. It wouldn't push him into the ATG ranks (in my opinion) but it would be a quality win over a guy who has come back to beat top fighters in spite of losing to the very best. Its kind of a Jerry Quarry situation where he could never beat the very best, but proved he could keep coming back to beat most other contenders. That's what makes him a quality win for both Ali and Frazier. Do you know what Im saying?

[JAB5239]

Funny, I don't see "Busted up Lennox Lewis for several rounds and then couldn't get a rematch with him to save my life" on there.

Weird.

On where? No one knows what you're talking about if you don't explain yourself or use the quote function.