Bradley deserves the criticism.

[Ray*]

Roach got into Tim's head before the fight even started, with the "he's going to run again" talk. Combine that with all the $h!t he got from the Pac decision, Bradley was trying to prove something instead of fighting like he did in the middle rounds

Exactly! Maybe I overrated Bradley previously or maybe he isn't as good as I thought he was but I never thought he would do what someone like khan did against Garcia. I think he would learn from this fight mind you but I never thought he would be drawn in by Roach talking about him not running before the fight or him not adjusting the way I thought his skill level would have made him to, one thing though when he decided to box like his corner told him to then he wept found 3-10 on my card.

[KayDub]

Bradley can't win. If he boxed like he did in the middle rounds he would be called a boring runner and people would say "he hasn't looked good since the Alexander fight"

Now he goes toe to toe when he shouldn't have and people are still criticizing him instead of showing him respect for having a heart, grit and determination of a warrior.

What do you want from Bradley? He's always been an average fighter skill wise and he always will be one. What separates him from other fighters is his will to win.

From what I've seen of this fight I'm even more of a Bradley fan now.

[PEBBLES!]

I think he does fight dumb, at times.

By no means at all times, he's not a dumb fighter.

But, he does tend to get get sloppy and "dumb" at times, IMO.

my answers to those charges lay in these already posted passages,

'fighting inside' or 'pressuring' are nuanced from 'whaling away at a somewhat close range that still gives your opponent that little bit of space that he can use and staying there for extended periods'.

he didn't just come straight back at Holt, though. he continued to pressure, but adjusted and tightened up, and didn't get that careless again until the 12th

Bradley has spent a lot of time working in that range when he isn't concerned about being worn down by an opponent's workrate or power, because they either don't hit that hard typically or they don't have the workrate (Holt hit hard but is lazy, for example).

every fighter is going to get sloppy and dumb sometimes. Bradley's done it. hell, Mayweather's done it. at some point, even the most disciplined guy says 'to hell with it!'

i'm just not sure that Bradley's been as guilty of it as habitually as you may believe he has. specifically, i'm not sure that i'd necessarily see 'dumbness' where you might perceive it. example: you don't seem to give him much credit for closing holes in his defense even while remaining aggressive against Holt, and i kinda got the feeling you were saying that he just fought the exact same way all 12 rounds.

[mathed]

Tim just fought a dumb fight. People don't always think about the stuff that happens outside of the ring, what the fighters hear or read the public saying about them, personal stuff, financial troubles, etc. That crap can get to people and force them to act out of character just like last night - it was painfully obvious that he was trying to knock Ruslan out and play some KO artist role when that just isn't what he is and never was.

He wins his fights by outboxing people with movement and activity. All the mid-rounds were the way he should have fought the entire fight but it is what it is at this point. If he had just boxed, he would have been called a runner and boring, instead he did his best Rocky impersonation and is a called a bum.

I think the underlying story is that people should give Ruslan more credit for his skill level. I see this "ESPN level" fighter comment a bunch.....how many pro boxers that are at the top now, never fought on ESPN when they were coming up? Peterson was fighting on ESPN not more than a month ago. The guy had one loss by SD and it was semi-controversial although Ruslan admitted that he didn't train properly for that fight.
I don't think he is a bum and I'd like to see him against some of the other "elite" fighters at 147 and see what happens there.

[2todabody]

Exactly! Maybe I overrated Bradley previously or maybe he isn't as good as I thought he was but I never thought he would do what someone like khan did against Garcia. I think he would learn from this fight mind you but I never thought he would be drawn in by Roach talking about him not running before the fight or him not adjusting the way I thought his skill level would have made him to, one thing though when he decided to box like his corner told him to then he wept found 3-10 on my card.

I was suprised myself, especially after Prov rocked him and he stayed and traded. Pride almost cost him his belt. if Prov had went to the body, i think he would have broke Tim's will to keep going after he had him dazed.

[PEBBLES!]

I think he does fight dumb, at times.

By no means at all times, he's not a dumb fighter.

But, he does tend to get get sloppy and "dumb" at times, IMO.

every fighter is going to get sloppy and dumb sometimes. Bradley's done it. hell, Mayweather's done it. at some point, even the most disciplined guy says 'to hell with it!'

i'm just not sure that Bradley's been as guilty of it as habitually as you may believe he has. specifically, i'm not sure that i'd necessarily see 'dumbness' where you might perceive it. example: you don't seem to give him much credit for closing holes in his defense even while remaining aggressive against Holt, and i kinda got the feeling you were saying that he just fought the exact same way all 12 rounds.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13156151&postcount=125

[IronDanHamza]

i don't believe that i ever stated once that Tim is the pure-boxer who ate Cincinnati. although, he boxes very well in spite of possessing a stature that is ostensibly incongruous with out-fighting.

I know but a lot of people, well, a handful of people consider him to be that.

That said, I still don't quite rate his boxing ability quite as highly as you do. Not saying you're wrong.

it's right there on the tape, though. you can see him go to RP at points when he really did not need to and then staying in the trenches instead of getting in and out (as he did against a previous opponent whose strength put him on the back foot).

Certainly, because that's his style. That's what he does.

Bradley has fought better fighters than Ruslan but has he fought someone with his pressure and power? (Outside Pacquaio) not often. I think that may attest to his "Willingness to fight as oppose to box".

I think rounds 3 and 4 and 7,8 and 9 were clear signs of what he wanted to do at that point and it worked while he could keep it up. But I don't think he could keep it up. JMO.

'fighting inside' or 'pressuring' are nuanced from 'whaling away at a somewhat close range that still gives your opponent that little bit of space that he can use and staying there for extended periods'.



that's just restating your original point without adding to the counter-points i presented re. the 'inside fighting', though.

as i already intimated, there are nuances in range. some would describe the mid-range as 'the inside'. look how often Tyson is mischaracterized as an 'inside fighter'.

I understand.

It wasn't entirely "Inside fighting" despite decent spells on the inside for both men. Bradley did better work on the actual inside, he was also hurt on the inside.

All of the "Up close battle" wasn't inside, or in the pocket, the ranges you are talking about.

Mike Tyson being a good example of the difference, albeit, I think his inside game is a tad underrated. He's not an "inside fighter" and rarely fought there. This of course, I know you know.

saying that Ruslan fared better on the inside than one might have expected is too flat a statement and doesn't give me much understanding of what you're seeing, because they fought at varying degrees of close range in the fight. could you identify some moments that i could look at?

Hope I cleared up my points in my above statments.

I can't identify specifics but in all the rounds he won or argubably won (1,2,6,11,12) he did atleast some decent work on the inside.

he didn't just come straight back at Holt, though. he continued to pressure, but adjusted and tightened up, and didn't get that careless again until the 12th.

Of course. You misunderstand me.

He adjusted, that's a great part of his name. Most notably with Witter and Peterson.

I was just pointing out his warrior mentality to continue to push the fight, albeit in a more cautious way.

here for strong, insightful debate, bro. let's trade. give me reason to change my mind.

I'm not confident we will change each others mind but I'm enjoying sharing insights.

[Fetta]

I never thought Bradley was elite or P4P but last night he earned my respect

[The Gambler1981]

Bradley deserves plenty of criticism~ especially considering the outlandish stuff that get spouted about. I don't think he deserves to be discredited completely though because there were aspects of his performance that deserve plenty of respect.

You can't be as sloppy and wide as Bradley is and not get in trouble at times, on the inside that is among the worst things you can do, Ruslan came to fight and if there is one thing Ruslan can do it is be an offensive fighter on the inside that is his bread and butter.


Now I would expect a versatile fighter like Bradley to approach this a bit differently because one of the ways to beat a versatile guys is to be very superior in specific areas and if a guy can get the fight in those areas the versatile guy that normally always has the advantage will now be the one at a disadvantage.

I don't want to knock Bradley to much but I already had a pretty realistic view of him, he can go on to do some works still but if he can get back to 140 he should 147 will not be kind to him long run. Ruslan exceeded my expectation, not what he did once he got into position but how he managed to get to places he wanted so easily (that wasn't Bradley's choice).

[KickAzz]

give Bradley some credit... why the hell do you people give fighters crap when they give entertaining fights? that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. fighters should be rewarded fighting their hearts out.if you wanna see two grown men play patty cake, your watching the wrong sport