Bradley deserves the criticism.

[-PBP-]

From what I've seen of this fight I'm even more of a Bradley fan now.

That's why he fought the way he fought. And from what I've been reading on Facebook and Twitter it seemed to have worked.

And as far as P4P, he deserves to be in the top 10 because of his entire body of work up to this point in his career.

[PEBBLES!]

Certainly, because that's his style. That's what he does.

when i said, "you can see him go to RP at points when he really did not need to and then staying in the trenches instead of getting in and out (as he did against a previous opponent whose strength put him on the back foot)", the previous opponent to whom i referred, the guy who Tim got in and out on, was Lamont Peterson. which brings me to the next passage.

Bradley has fought better fighters than Ruslan but has he fought someone with his pressure and power? (Outside Pacquaio) not often. I think that may attest to his "Willingness to fight as oppose to box".

from earlier in the convo,

against Peterson, he went in to feel what his guy had, got buzzed up a bit at one point at those closer quarters, and then, after realizing Peterson's strength, stayed outside for long passages and outboxed/jabbed a longer, fundamentally sound fighter, picking his moments to bully much more carefully and not spending so much time there.

Bradley felt what Provodnikov had and still took excessive risks.

now, Peterson doesn't have the power that Provodnikov does, but he did have enough to buzz Timmy up and make him re-think his strategy and switch plans. Timmy switched plans successfully and pretty much dominated Peterson, who is a more educated ring-cutter IMO than Ruslan.

against Ruslan, who hit harder than Peterson and whom Tim should have been even warier of after tasting his strength, Tim continued to take the excessive risks quite tangibly of his own volition.

example of unnecessary risk-taking: if you watch carefully, it was hanging and trading in the mid-range (not the inside) that renewed his troubles at about 1:45 of an 11th which he was getting the better of up 'til that point. then at 1:25, his problems got worse after another spell standing in the mid-range and trading. same thing happened in the 12th when he was hanging around with his back to the ropes and that bit of space between them, he threw a right hand and got nailed with the left hook that sent him reeling out of there.

so why take the risks against the bigger-punching pressure fighter that he didn't take against the lighter-punching pressure fighter?
economics. he needed to sell himself as an opponent. it's not a secret that Bradley has been in limbo and short on options since Pacquiao. it's not a secret that Nacho Beristain had expressed stylistic misgivings about the prospect of his old boy facing Bradley.
Tim was trying to showcase himself as a marketable opponent for a big fight and he probably succeeeded, even as close as he was to being knocked out. Arum exalted him for almost being stretched, but probably wouldn't have had anything approving to say had Bradley skated to a wide UD. that's the perversity of boxing for you.

I think rounds 3 and 4 and 7,8 and 9 were clear signs of what he wanted to do at that point and it worked while he could keep it up. But I don't think he could keep it up. JMO.

he did his thing in 10, too, although he shaded that round more than anything.


as for his not being able to 'keep it up':

again, it's worth side-noting that fatigue was setting in by 10-12. he should have been fresher for the championship stretch than he was, but he allowed himself to accumulate damage too early in the fight, throwing away the 1st with that 'eager to impress' intent, which set up the rough 2nd round he experienced.

still, i don't agree that it was all Ruslan's pressure or even Bradley's advanced fatigue that set up the tough times in 11 and 12. allow me to quote from earlier in this post,

if you watch carefully, it was hanging and trading in the mid-range (not the inside) that renewed his troubles at about 1:45 of an 11th which he was getting the better of up 'til that point. then at 1:25, his problems got worse after another spell standing in the mid-range and trading. same thing happened in the 12th when he was hanging around with his back to the ropes and that bit of space between them, he threw a right hand and got nailed with the left hook that sent him reeling out of there.

i'm not so much identifying his decision to fight Ruslan at close quarters as reckless, but moreso the too-frequently and often protracted abandonment of responsibility he demonstrated in the space between the real inside and the outside against a stronger puncher.
and my argument is that i don't believe that's typical of Bradley. while he will eagerly taste what a guy's got up close, he has shown a tendency to keep distance and use his jab and make angles if he finds that the opponent's strength is overbearing (Peterson, and also in certain rounds against Provodnikov). i do believe that he invested in going at it with this guy as much as he did for the sake of selling himself as an opponent to the likes of Marquez and Rios.




i didn't quote your other points because i think we're closer to agreement on certain points than it maybe appeared at first.

i probably do hold Bradley's skills in a little higher esteem than you, but i don't think there's any yawning chasm of difference in how well we regard him.

[BoxingGenius27]

I like Bradley as much as the next guy but let us be real about things. Individuals are touting him as a top 10 pound for pound fighter yet he was put on ***** street by some no mark. I don't want to take anything away from Provodnikov as he fought his heart out and did what any underdog should do but I'd be telling people a point blank lie if I said ''You know what he's better than I expected'' because he wasn't. He looked like a limited who would be easily outboxed/broken down by the elite of the sport.

And there lies the problem. All boxers with a reputation would be criticised for winning in a dominant fashion against the likes of Provodnikov. Canelo is never given a break, Marquez was criticised for his routine win against Fedchenko, Donaire v Nishioka, Martinez v Barker.... the list goes on. Other fighters are getting slated for looking a class apart when they deal with the likes of ( or in some cases superior opponents to Provodnikov) yet people want to get up in arms for slating Bradley after a life and death performance?

In the end he showed his metal but it should never have gone so far.

you realize that before Cotto, Mayweathers toughest fight was against Emmanual Augustus who has like 30 losses.

You do realize that Tyson was knocked out by James Douglass?

Who did Wlad first lose to? Some no name bum....

Point is, SO WHAT?

What's your point? He was in a tough fight, so that means discredit him as a top 10 fighter?

There hasn't been one fighter who is somebody that hasn't been in a tough fight with a so called lesser opponent.

Damn this schit irks me.

[Vasyl’s dad]

one must acknowledge why it got that far, though. Bradley fought that guy's fight and stayed in his range for too long spells because he was trying to impress himself upon the consciousness of the casual audience, his promoter, and any potential opponents.

Bradley usually makes guys look bad. but in making Ruslan Provodnikov look good yesterday evening, he made himself an attractive opponent in two ways:

1. he showed himself marketable - fans should want to see him again and be excited about a fight involving Tim Bradley

2. he showed himself vulnerable and therefore more easily beatable in the minds of potential name opponents (Marquez, Rios)

point #2 is deceptive, though - because, if Bradley lands that big fight with either of those two guys, you know he isn't going to be playing into the opponent's hands the way he did tonight.


Bradley's metal (*sic*) has always been apparent. i wish he hadn't shown it in the way he did last night, but i understand why he had to go there.

Lol. Bradley didn't choose to just stand and trade. Provo made him work. He was on his ass for every second. Don't take away credit from Provo by saying Bradley chose to trade for this and that reason. You undermine the effort put in by Provo.

[IronDanHamza]

when i said, "you can see him go to RP at points when he really did not need to and then staying in the trenches instead of getting in and out (as he did against a previous opponent whose strength put him on the back foot)", the previous opponent to whom i referred, the guy who Tim got in and out on, was Lamont Peterson. which brings me to the next passage.



from earlier in the convo,



now, Peterson doesn't have the power that Provodnikov does, but he did have enough to buzz Timmy up and make him re-think his strategy and switch plans. Timmy switched plans successfully and pretty much dominated Peterson, who is a more educated ring-cutter IMO than Ruslan.

against Ruslan, who hit harder than Peterson and whom Tim should have been even warier of after tasting his strength, Tim continued to take the excessive risks quite tangibly of his own volition.

Good points but I interpret it a little different.

Only difference in our view is that I think Tim at times, and that's the key words, at times, went to war not by his own accord.

In the other hand, I have little doubt he also did go to war on his own accord at times.

I think where some may have got mixed up with my posts is that I believe Bradley had no intention at all of trading. That's certainly not the case.

To me, that's what I expect from Bradley. And I'd also agree in this fight he wanted to make a statement so he may well have hung around too long in the danger zone than he should have.

These are things I'm certainly not dis*****g.

That said, like we've touched on, Bradley is a guy who adjusts, and changes his style I.e Witter, Peterson, Holt and in this particular fight I do believe he did try that, but was struggling to do so.

example of unnecessary risk-taking: if you watch carefully, it was hanging and trading in the mid-range (not the inside) that renewed his troubles at about 1:45 of an 11th which he was getting the better of up 'til that point. then at 1:25, his problems got worse after another spell standing in the mid-range and trading. same thing happened in the 12th when he was hanging around with his back to the ropes and that bit of space between them, he threw a right hand and got nailed with the left hook that sent him reeling out of there.

I'm in agreement that a lot of Ruslan's success was at mid range although I do think he had some success on the inside also. As did Bradley.

I just think "Unnecessary risk taking" is part of his game and style.

[QUOTE=PEBBLES!;13156440]so why take the risks against the bigger-punching pressure fighter that he didn't take against the lighter-punching pressure fighter?
economics. he needed to sell himself as an opponent. it's not a secret that Bradley has been in limbo and short on options since Pacquiao. it's not a secret that Nacho Beristain had expressed stylistic misgivings about the prospect of his old boy facing Bradley.
Tim was trying to showcase himself as a marketable opponent for a big fight and he probably succeeeded, even as close as he was to being knocked out. Arum exalted him for almost being stretched, but probably wouldn't have had anything approving to say had Bradley skated to a wide UD. that's the perversity of boxing for you. [/QUOTES]

Perhaps.

I'd inclined to think it could be abit of both.

he did his thing in 10, too, although he shaded that round more than anything.

Absolutely.

I gave it Bradley but it could have gone either way.

as for his not being able to 'keep it up':

again, it's worth side-noting that fatigue was setting in by 10-12. he should have been fresher for the championship stretch than he was, but he allowed himself to accumulate damage too early in the fight, throwing away the 1st with that 'eager to impress' intent, which set up the rough 2nd round he experienced.

Yeah, he was dead tired and that was definitely one of the reasons he was hitting hit a lot also but he was getting hit quite before he was clearly fatigued.

Goes back to the point of you thinking it was Bradley's doing whereas I think it's more of a bit of both kind of thing.

still, i don't agree that it was all about Ruslan's pressure or even Bradley's advanced fatigue that set up the tough times in 11 and 12. allow me to quote from earlier in this post,



i'm not so much identifying his decision to fight Ruslan at close quarters as reckless, but moreso the too-frequently and often protracted abandonment of responsibility he demonstrated in the space between the real inside and the outside against a stronger puncher.
and my argument is that i don't believe that's typical of Bradley. while he will eagerly taste what a guy's got up close, he has shown a tendency to keep distance and use his jab and make angles if he finds that the opponent's strength is overbearing (Peterson and also in certain rounds of the Provodnikov fight). i do believe that he invested in going at it with this guy as much as he did for the sake of selling himself as an opponent to the likes of Marquez and Rios.

I suppose where we differ is it being typical Bradley.

For me, from what I've seen, it's typical Bradley.

He's wide open a lot of the times, but slippery. He's not easy to hit by any means but he's not too hard to find either.

That's the way I look at Bradley.

probably do hold Bradley's skills in a little higher esteem than you, but i don't think there's a huge yawning chasm of difference in how well we regard him.

That's fair to say.

I don't think Bradley is an unskilled fighter, quite the opposite.

The only thing I disagree with is that he is exceptionally skilled and more over is he has an exceptional defense.

That are my main issues, statements like that.

[Augustane]

I have to agree with OP.

People say we can't give Tim some crap because he fought his heart out and tried his best, yet we all make fun of Khan's glass jaw. Khan tried his best every time also - it wasn't as if he wanted to let his face get caved in.

Pacquiao, Mayweather, Donaire, and all the Pound for Pound giants get criticized. There's no escaping it, no matter how good you are.

[The Noose]

I cant criticise Bradley after that fight. he boxed, he fought, he survived and almost won by TKO himself.

Ive never rated him very highly, so to me, he has gone way up in my opinion. Not as a great boxer, but as a serious opponent. Also, Provodnikov threw great shots and was a very dangerous puncher who could of taken out many of the divisions best.

[speed2kill]

This fight will shorten Bradley's career.

[typeone]

Bradley did not fight the right fight from the start, And this is what caused the problem. Although he made his adjustment in the 3rd onwards I think it was to late as the first two rounds had taken a lot out of him mentally, And physically.. I believe he was shocked to be honest, And I think that pride had something to do with why he chose to trade.. The corner must take some responsibility for the way he dealt with what is in front of him. The camp was wrong, Bradley could have picked him apart quite easily then come on heavy on the later rounds..

But guy's........ What a good fight, loved it! That's what boxing is about right ?

Props to both fighters I know I enjoyed it

[BrokenHat]

where can i see highlights online?