"I do everything average" Tim Bradley

[IronDanHamza]

Diaz, Katsidis would have never put that much leather on Bradley, while you disagree the footage is there, Bradley never hit the canvas against Manny, never came close to eating the kind of leather Marquez did, and that's Marquez with experience fightin' Manny. I know Pacquiao-Bradley had a significant amount of non effective punches from both ends, a lot of misses, but he's standing right in front of Manny and Pacquiao only managed to shake him up once.



Defensively, the only one you mentioned that I could agree with is Moreno, but Bradley defends better than him in the pocket because he can actually fight there.

How much did Katsidis land on Marquez other than the KD? The same thing you're saying for Holt-Bradley.

Hitting the canvas and defensively ability aren't always intertwined.

Disagree completely about Moreno fighting in the pocket. He absolutely can fight in the pocket, and well.

[IronDanHamza]

agreed, 100% on Donaire and Martinez, who rely more on their legs to avoid blows than on defensive technique.

Marquez is a better technical defender than those guys but is maybe a little more prone to being hit than Bradley. that's a closer, more arguable call, though.

Does that mean they can't have a better defense?

Roy Jones and Muhammad Ali relied on thier legs defensively a whole lot but their defense are obviously far better than Bradley's.

[Doctor_Tenma]

How much did Katsidis land on Marquez other than the KD? The same thing you're saying for Holt-Bradley.

Hitting the canvas and defensively ability aren't always intertwined.

Disagree completely about Moreno fighting in the pocket. He absolutely can fight in the pocket, and well.

Yes Moreno can, I'm a fan, but he sure as hell can't do it consistently, he lets off shots in close then moves. No, I wouldn't say well, or else he wouldn't have moved against Mares who isn't all that skilled offensively in the pocket himself, he throws wide looping punches.

[S. Saddler 1310]

I'm not aware of the compubox numbers.

Just from what I see.

Bradley got hit more than Marquez did in any of the 4 fights IMO.

Perhaps not as clean as some of the shots Marquez took but more on a whole. Pacquaio got him clean quite often too.

he really didn't, though. if there's anyone whom i would be surprised to see counting missed blows as landed blows, you might be that one, because you're an astute observer in most cases. but Pacquiao missed a hell of a lot that night.

against Pacquiao, Marquez generally takes more quality shots than Bradley did. that may be less true of Pac-JMM III, where the quality of Pacquiao's connects diminished, which only supports the point Dom just made regarding Marquez' familiarity with the opponent. JMM got hit a bunch in IV, but i attribute that to his shortening the distance slightly and staying closer to Pacquiao as a strategic gamble (which paid off).

Tim agrees with me though

a general statement to make a point, though, surely?

[S. Saddler 1310]

Does that mean they can't have a better defense?

Roy Jones and Muhammad Ali relied on thier legs defensively a whole lot but their defense are obviously far better than Bradley's.

where is their defense when their legs fade? or when someone makes their legs tire?

funny you should mention Jones, because i was about to respond to the first line thusly - does RJJ have a better defence than Bernard Hopkins (ultimately speaking)?

the 'better' defence is the fundamentally sound one. without that fundamental soundness, you're on borrowed time as a defender.

[S. Saddler 1310]

i think it's ludicrous to credit Sergio Martinez, of all people, with a better defense than Tim Bradley, to be honest.


i didn't follow the convo far enough back to know if Dan directly stated as much, though.

[IronDanHamza]

he really didn't, though. if there's anyone whom i would be surprised to see counting missed blows as landed blows, you might be that one, because you're an astute observer in most cases. but Pacquiao missed a hell of a lot that night.

By all means, I'm not dis*****g Pacquaio was having trouble finding the target.

In no way am I saying Pacquaio beat the **** out of Bradley and pummled him.

Bradley is slipperly, he's not easy to hit. I'm not implying he is.

against Pacquiao, Marquez generally takes more quality shots than Bradley did. that may be less true of Pac-JMM III, wher the quality of Pacquiao's connects diminished, which only supports the point Dom just made regarding Marquez' familiarity with the opponent. JMM got hit a bunch in IV, but i attribute that to his shortening the distance slightly and staying closer to Pacquiao as a strategic gamble (which paid off).

I'd say it's more to do with the fact he's clearly well into a decline.

In the first fight, for example, other than the first round, Marquez wasn't hit flush barely at all.

Marquez today and Bradley I guess are arguable. I was referring more to Marquez quite a few years back.

Even still, I'd consider him to still have a better defense today.

a general statement to make a point, though, surely?

What is? I don't follow.

This isn't the first time Bradley has openly stated that he feels he's average in every area.

I can't find it, but in another interview he even said he's not exceptional in any area.

I feel the same way but it conflicts with quite a few's views on the matter so I thought I'd be interesting to share it.

I don't intend to bash Bradley.

[Doctor_Tenma]

i think it's ludicrous to credit Sergio Martinez, of all people, with a better defense than Tim Bradley, to be honest.


i didn't follow the convo far enough back to know if Dan directly stated as much, though.

Which is why I asked whether he was trolling, then he brought up Wlad who's means of defending is to control distance and clinch, in that dreadful ass division. I know, this is like some Twilight Zone shit, I been trippin' lately too.

[IronDanHamza]

i think it's ludicrous to credit Sergio Martinez, of all people, with a better defense than Tim Bradley, to be honest.


i didn't follow the convo far enough back to know if Dan directly stated as much, though.

I did and the worst part is I don't rate Martinez defense highly

I may have over stepped that one.

Still, I think it's arguable. He's definitely a lot slicker than Bradley.

[IronDanHamza]

where is their defense when their legs fade? or when someone makes their legs tire?

funny yoy should mention Jones, because i was about to respond to the first line thusly 0 does RJJ have a better defence than Bernard Hopkins (ultimately speaking)?

the 'better' defence is the fundamentally sound one. without that fundamental soundness, you're on borrowed time as a defender.

I don't think it's fair to say "When their legs fade" because they rely on them to defend.

Just because they rely on them to defend doesn't mean they aren't great at defending when capable. I.e Roy Jones. Who had outright great defense in his prime.

It may not be the right way, or the fundemental way to defend. But it stopped him from getting hit, which is what matters.

But Hopkins would have the better defense of the two IMO.