Vitali's legacy

[Barry Allen]

Temper, temper. Who said I decided what standard to use? I clearly said "Accomplishment and resume is the standard true boxing historians use." But if you want to try and argue his resume with me than be my guest. Sanders had never beaten a top 10 fighter before or after Wlad. Sam Peters best win was over a former middlweight and had alread been beaten by little brother. Gomez beat one good fighter. And former lightheavyweight Adamek had 5 fights at heavy beating one top 10 fighter who never beat another top 10 fighter before or since. Lets look at Ruiz' best wins, shall we?

Rahman - Had won and lost to Lewis, gave up a TD to Holyfield and drew with David Tua. All weren top 10 fighters at the time.

Golota - Had previously gotten a draw against IBF champion Chris Byrd.

Holyfield - ATG who was ranked only behind Lewis when he should have lost the drae, but fought a much closer fight in the loss in his two previous fights.

Johnson - Was undefeated and had stopped world rated Oleg Maskeav two fights before.

So really now....going by YOUR standards John Ruiz is an ATG.

Now you can end the thread.

This is a little biased in your desciptions but over all I agree with you.

[JAB5239]

This is a little biased in your desciptions but over all I agree with you.

I don't think this is biased at all. In fact id say its pretty accurate. So if someone is going to call Vits an ATG heavyweight than you might as well do the same for Ruiz because you're watering down the term. I know you said you don't, but some others on here would like it to be otherwise.

[Weltschmerz]

Temper, temper. Who said I decided what standard to use? I clearly said "Accomplishment and resume is the standard true boxing historians use." But if you want to try and argue his resume with me than be my guest. Sanders had never beaten a top 10 fighter before or after Wlad. Sam Peters best win was over a former middlweight and had alread been beaten by little brother. Gomez beat one good fighter. And former lightheavyweight Adamek had 5 fights at heavy beating one top 10 fighter who never beat another top 10 fighter before or since. Lets look at Ruiz' best wins, shall we?

Rahman - Had won and lost to Lewis, gave up a TD to Holyfield and drew with David Tua. All weren top 10 fighters at the time.

Golota - Had previously gotten a draw against IBF champion Chris Byrd.

Holyfield - ATG who was ranked only behind Lewis when he should have lost the drae, but fought a much closer fight in the loss in his two previous fights.

Johnson - Was undefeated and had stopped world rated Oleg Maskeav two fights before.

So really now....going by YOUR standards John Ruiz is an ATG.

Now you can end the thread.

What a piss poor reply.

So you're telling me John Ruiz has a more accomplished career than Vitali? He won the world title over an already old Holyfield, then lost it to an already old Roy Jones jr, and a couple years later lost it vs the almighty Nikolay Valuev

Vitali, on the other hand, has been a dominant champ now since his comeback, having made 10 successful defenses, and is prior a three time world champ.

You can't compare the two based on a fact Ruiz beat a couple old dinosaurs. Give yourself a break, mr. history mod

[Daddy T]

What a piss poor reply.

So you're telling me John Ruiz has a more accomplished career than Vitali? He won the world title over an already old Holyfield, then lost it to an already old Roy Jones jr, and a couple years later lost it vs the almighty Nikolay Valuev

Vitali, on the other hand, has been a dominant champ now since his comeback, having made 10 successful defenses, and is prior a three time world champ.

You can't compare the two based on a fact Ruiz beat a couple old dinosaurs. Give yourself a break, mr. history mod

At least he actually fought valuev ...

[JAB5239]

What a piss poor reply.

So you're telling me John Ruiz has a more accomplished career than Vitali? He won the world title over an already old Holyfield, then lost it to an already old Roy Jones jr, and a couple years later lost it vs the almighty Nikolay Valuev

Vitali, on the other hand, has been a dominant champ now since his comeback, having made 10 successful defenses, and is prior a three time world champ.

You can't compare the two based on a fact Ruiz beat a couple old dinosaurs. Give yourself a break, mr. history mod

So you're saying those guys were not more accomplished than the guys Vittles fought? And Holyfield was younger than Vits is now and still considered one of the very best heavyweights.

What does my moderating the history section have to do with this conversation?

[JAB5239]

At least he actually fought valuev ...

And Tua and Golota and Rahman and Holyfield, all of which could have been viable fights for Vits that were never made.

[Daddy T]

So you're saying those guys were not more accomplished than the guys Vittles fought? And Holyfield was younger than Vits is now and still considered one of the very best heavyweights.

What does my moderating the history section have to do with this conversation?

just that he can't compete with ur knowledge so he has to to resort to arguing with opinion e.g. " I think head to head he would have beaten such and such a guy if he had actually fought him thus that makes him an atg."

typical argument from biased fan boy who knows nothing about the sport.

[Cuban Linx]

Skill wise, I believe he is the more refined of the Klitschko's. He's shown an inside game against Lewis, landing uppercuts.

Career wise his brother has the far superior career.

I still think he's an ATG in the HW division. Skill wise for sure top 10. Career wise? tough to say.

[JAB5239]

just that he can't compete with ur knowledge so he has to to resort to arguing with opinion e.g. " I think head to head he would have beaten such and such a guy if he had actually fought him thus that makes him an atg."

typical argument from biased fan boy who knows nothing about the sport.

I think Vittles could beat lots of fighters....but he DIDN'T. So why should any reasonable boxing fan leap frog him over fighters who have? You're right, only a fan boy or unknowledgable person would do that. Weinerschnitzel just happens to be both.

[Weltschmerz]

I think Vittles could beat lots of fighters....but he DIDN'T. So why should any reasonable boxing fan leap frog him over fighters who have? You're right, only a fan boy or unknowledgable person would do that. Weinerschnitzel just happens to be both.

ha ha, it's so typical of you teaming up and resorting to petty insults!

Seriously, don't you have anything better? Man up.

I made a reasonable thread for sober discussion, and you're all over the place as usual with usual Klitschko bashing.

You need to make your own John Ruiz ATG thread.