Is Andre Ward comparible to Pre-Pacquiao Tim Bradley?

[Spiegelo]

Because it was a robbery. But again, the only people who have handled Pacquiao since his losses earlier in his career are other ATG fighters. Its not as simple as "counter-punching with movement," or Pacquiao would have a few more losses. Bradley isn't that, but he still showed skill that most people still don't think he has, even though they picked Pacquiao to slaughter him early.

No, Bradley doesn't do those things remarkably, but he does them well. He does just about everything well, but nothing remarkably. That's the difference between him and Ward, who does a few things remarkably. But it doesn't mean a fighter isn't well rounded, just because they aren't as good as a better fighter that is well rounded. That's all I'm debating with you about, is that Bradley is a well rounded fighter, who does almost everything well. I'm not arguing that he beat Pacquiao or is as good as Ward, just that.

You and your goddamn strawman fallacies...

[The Evil 1-2]

I was trying to educate you on boxing, something I've given up on. You can use that dictionary, but you just don't learn....

I just don't learn? Thanks for the ad hominem fallacy. Sadly, I was finding your input to be promising considering the constant trash that is usually spewed in this forum.

[Spiegelo]

I just don't learn? Thanks for the ad hominem fallacy. Sadly, I was finding your input to be promising considering the constant trash that is usually spewed in this forum.

Yeah well your FACE is asinine!


...:wank:

[The Evil 1-2]

Because it was a robbery. But again, the only people who have handled Pacquiao since his losses earlier in his career are other ATG fighters. Its not as simple as "counter-punching with movement," or Pacquiao would have a few more losses. Bradley isn't that, but he still showed skill that most people still don't think he has, even though they picked Pacquiao to slaughter him early.

No, Bradley doesn't do those things remarkably, but he does them well. He does just about everything well, but nothing remarkably. That's the difference between him and Ward, who does a few things remarkably. But it doesn't mean a fighter isn't well rounded, just because they aren't as good as a better fighter that is well rounded. That's all I'm debating with you about, is that Bradley is a well rounded fighter, who does almost everything well. I'm not arguing that he beat Pacquiao or is as good as Ward, just that.

Yes, ATG fighters have handed him losses. No arguing that. But, at the same time, to ignore the specific style that was used to beat Pac in those fights is MISSING THE FOREST THROUGH THE TREES.

Thank you for presenting your input in a respectful manner. However, I cannot agree with Bradley being this "well-rounded" fighter that you think him to be. All I can see is pressure backed up with good conditioning.

With our personal viewpoints aside, Bradley sums up his pressure style with the statement: "WHEN I ACTUALLY TURNED PROFESSIONAL, THAT'S WHEN I BECAME THE HUNTER...GOING TO THE GUY AS OPPOSE TO BACKING UP

[RubenSonny]

Because it was a robbery. But again, the only people who have handled Pacquiao since his losses earlier in his career are other ATG fighters. Its not as simple as "counter-punching with movement," or Pacquiao would have a few more losses. Bradley isn't that, but he still showed skill that most people still don't think he has, even though they picked Pacquiao to slaughter him early.

No, Bradley doesn't do those things remarkably, but he does them well. He does just about everything well, but nothing remarkably. That's the difference between him and Ward, who does a few things remarkably. But it doesn't mean a fighter isn't well rounded, just because they aren't as good as a better fighter that is well rounded. That's all I'm debating with you about, is that Bradley is a well rounded fighter, who does almost everything well. I'm not arguing that he beat Pacquiao or is as good as Ward, just that.

What are these few things Ward does remarkably?

[Rome-By-Ko]

You imply Bradley HAS POWER because he has made plenty of fighters hit the canvas. This is problematic. First, a KD doesn't necessarily mean the fighter has genuine power. The KD could have resulted from a well-placed punch in an exchange or due to poor defense by the fighter that got knocked down.

You imply that Bradley has GREAT DEFENSE because he has made fighters MISS A TON. What am I reading here? Let's look at his most recent performance against Pacquiao considering that a fighter's last fight is presumably the best way to gauge the development of his current skills. Simply put, he got hit PLENTY of times in that fight, which is why many in the Boxing world called the decision in Bradley's favor a robbery. But this doesn't matter to you because you think Bradley won based on "competent" judging, LOL.

My assessment of Bradley's style has no negative effect on his ranking. With the exception of the gift decision against Pac, he has earned his spot. You're committing a Strawman fallacy by insinuating that I don't think Bradley is deserving of his high-ranking status. Far from it; I'm simply saying that he has gotten to this point PRIMARILY ON A PRESSURE STYLE.

Bradley isn't the type of fighter to make great in-fight adjustments like Mayweather. If that were the case, he would have shown such an ability in the Pac fight. The Witter bout was a good example of his forward-pressure. The Alexander fight was a good example of his pressure coupled with the fact that Alexander's offensive attack in that fight was WAY TOO PREDICTABLE. Sure, he tried to implement a counter-punching style against Pac, but as I stated to the another poster, THIS WAS A FAILURE AND HE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN AN OFFICIAL LOSS BECAUSE OF IT. He doesn't have the necessary skills/tools to effectively implement such a style against the elite of the elite.

I thought you said your assessment of Bradley style had no negative effect on his ranking..Then you turn around and don't give him credit for the Pac fight..When Bradley won the Championship rds clearly...with guess what??A counter punchers style(that had Pac very confused)but you won't see this,I gave you the Witter fight Holt and Alexander fight as examples of Bradley applying pressure to beat and opponent..I also gave you examples of Bradley fighting off the back foot and taking the role as the counter puncher in such fights as Cherry Peterson Pac(although in the Pac fight he could not sustain it for all 12 rds because he hurt his foot)and even the Abregu fight he fought off the back foot until the end of the fight where he kinda started to brawl..

At the end of the day we can have different views on this it's fine..But even pros will attest that Bradley is a well round fighter which is the biggest reason he has made it this far in this sport....

[Pin Galarga]

Andre entered a tournament and faced the best in his division. Pacquiao would never enter such tour and has been cherrypicking all his opponents.. except Marquez WHO knocking him out.
Andre doesn't get the hype but the hard core fans know He is much better than super manny.

[Cinci Champ]

his feet were broken i know people like to say because he was running and want to down play injuries but to use that fight as a measuring stick for defense or anything for that matter really is not fare honestly

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Naw not really my dude. At least I dont see it. Bradley sad to say is just another guy now.

[lefthook2daliva]

I know right.

It's getting ridiculous now, if you say something that could possibly be construed as negative about Ward, they flood in raging.

I've not anywhere said Bradley is better, or even as good as Ward, but it hasn't gone down well.

And Bradley is a top 10 p4p guy ffs

Who are we allowed to discuss Ward in the same breath as now?

Ali?

Sugar Ray?

God?

Oh I dunno....how bout'....Joe Calzaghe...Yeah...I think we could talk about Ward in the same breath as Joe Calzaghe.

Don't you?