Is Joe Calzaghe an ATG?

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  • DreamFighter
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    #141
    Originally posted by orriray59
    A close fight that I thought Calzaghe edged over a good domestic-level fighter.


    It was a shutout over the almost consensus favorite. Revisionism is sweet, although I concede that Lacy was never really that good. Jeff had stopped Reid and Pemberton, two decent wins.


    We're discussing things that actually happened here. Don't start throwing around fictional results for fictional fights that never happened nor will ever happen.
    Roy was a shell of his former self, and overall one of Calzaghe's lesser victories. Though a win over Hopkins, even at that stage, is a good achievement. The man went on to absolutely school Pavlik and become the oldest world champion in the history of boxing by decisioning Jean Pascal.

    Calzaghe was hardly prime and fresh for those fights, either.


    They were decent contenders. Calzaghe beat 'em. Nothing more to say, really.


    Maybe so, that was more a passing of the torch fight. It was for a vacant title that Calzaghe wanted, so he fought for it and was victorious.


    No, that amounts to three fictional losses you account for fights that never happened, and a close bout that many people thought Calzaghe won.

    Weak argument, that, seeing as I already agreed in my original post that it wasn't a great resume.
    Sure, I'm not saying that you blatantly disagree, just I'm disagreeing with some of your latter points. Its a shame that for that run of fights you mentioned, Joe didnt try to replace at least some of them with a Reid rematch, a Johnson fight finalised, a price match up for Bernard so that he would fight him, and some chasing of RJJ. Even an Ottke fight in Germany wouldnt be completely unthinkable. Instead we got a 10 year string of tv fighters, an about to retire sub-Audley Woodhall, Thornberry, Pudwill and Veit, the king of 6 round matches with the occasional decent contender every five years.

    Do you really think that prime Roy and Bernard wouldnt have shutout Calzaghe's high volume low power low accuracy 15 round attacks? I just cant see how Roy's pinpoint combos round after round wouldnt hit Calzaghe, they were far superior to Kessler and Reid who were both landing frequently, though Joe's chin would protect him and make sure he lasted the distance.

    I just fail to see how saying Roy and Bhop would shut him down is a weak argument. It seems straightforward to me, they were both three or four times as good in their prime. even old Bernard wasnt outskilled by Calzaghe at all, merely outdone in fitness ( easily Joe's best weapon, he had Olympic fitness way into his mid-30s, which is why his fear of flying got cured when the two major US stars got too old to last the distance at high tempo when he still easily could).
    Last edited by DreamFighter; 01-07-2013, 07:35 AM.

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    • Prince_Pugilist
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      #142
      Of course he is and many people here have explained why. I don't even bother with those who claim he isn't.

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      • daggum
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        #143
        Originally posted by Prince_Pugilist
        Of course he is and many people here have explained why. I don't even bother with those who claim he isn't.
        really why? lots of title defenses? so ottke is great? controversial decision against hopkins? so taylor is great? or maybe you have to have both? lots of crappy defenses and a controversial decision against hopkins. add in a ton of early stoppages and beating a shot jones jr and yeah that's a damn good career. i just convinced myself.

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        • DreamFighter
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          #144
          Joe could still become an ATG, if he came out and beat Ward. That would set him apart from other SMWs, none have returned to the ring to beat a dominant no1. Yet I dont think that will happen, its not in his nature to work 'uphill'.

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          • IronDanHamza
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            #145
            Has there ever been a ATG who has only beaten 3 fighters who were ranked in the Top 5 in their division?

            I'm not entirely sure so could someone point them out.

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            • IronDanHamza
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              #146
              Originally posted by mathed
              much like Ward's resume...except Calzaghe has 46 wins and Ward only has 26......young buck has a ways to go. I'm sure Pudwill would rematch him for a payday.
              Has Ward retired?

              If Ward retired tommorow he wouldn't even be a HOF'er so what relevance does that have to Calzaghe being an ATG?

              And Ward's resume is not much worse, if not, as good as Calzaghe's and he's not even a HOF calibur fighter.

              Yet Calzaghe is an ATG?
              Last edited by IronDanHamza; 01-07-2013, 08:39 AM.

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              • Larry the boss
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                #147
                No not an ATG..a hall of famer yes...ATG no...Resume is to thin

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                • daggum
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                  #148
                  Originally posted by IronDanHamza
                  Has there ever been a ATG who has only beaten 3 fighters who were ranked in the Top 5 in their division?

                  I'm not entirely sure so could someone point them out.
                  yes. joe calzaghe. ta-da!

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                  • tredh
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                    #149
                    Originally posted by Earl Hickey
                    Yes.

                    The poll will say no though, as this is an american site with mostly american users
                    I think to many people try to play the country bias game when people don't agree with them. The answer is simply no because that is the correct answer. It doesn't matter where Joe is from he just simply IMO is not an atg.

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                    • Skittlez
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                      #150
                      So what do yo people want?

                      SERIOUSLY?

                      You guys want Joe to apologize to Roy for clowning him?
                      Is that it?

                      It was all fun and games..
                      Roy did the same thing to the bums he fought brahs..

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