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It is INTELLECTUALLY & ANALYTICALLY DISHONEST to rank fighters with NO FIGHT FOOTAGE

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  • #61
    The reason you cannot rank fighters by H2H or skills is because the sport has changed.

    Yes, Lennox Lewis and both Klitschko brothers would destroy Jack Dempsey...

    But that's no fun is it, there needs to be a universal way to rank them and you do this with their accomplishments.

    The whole "Floyd Mayweather would own in the 1920's" is ******ed because he wouldn't be like he is in the 1920's, and trying to assume what Mayweather would be like had he been brought up in the '20's is ******ed.

    That's why you judge from accomplishments and resume relative to their era.

    Also T-S is a dumbass who has clearly shown he has no idea what he's talking about.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by El Gallo Negro! View Post
      Slavery never existed because there is no extensive video footage of it.
      Of slavery? Yeah there is. WTF?

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      • #63
        My list just for reference:

        1. Harry Greb
        2. Willie Pep
        3. Gene Tunney
        4. Jim Jeffries
        5. Jimmy McLarnin
        6. Benny Leonard
        7. John L Sullivan (yeah he was bareknuckle but one tough SOB)
        8. Jim Corbett
        9. Benny Leonard
        10. Barney Ross
        11. Mickey Walker
        12. Tony Canzoneri
        13. Bob Fitzsimmons
        14. Battling Nelson
        15. Benny Lynch
        16. Andre Ward
        17. Sam Langford
        18. Joe Calzaghe
        19. Tommy Loughran
        20. Maxie Rosenbloom

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Barnburner View Post
          The reason you cannot rank fighters by H2H or skills is because the sport has changed.

          Yes, Lennox Lewis and both Klitschko brothers would destroy Jack Dempsey...

          But that's no fun is it
          , there needs to be a universal way to rank them and you do this with their accomplishments.

          The whole "Floyd Mayweather would own in the 1920's" is ******ed because he wouldn't be like he is in the 1920's, and trying to assume what Mayweather would be like had he been brought up in the '20's is ******ed.

          That's why you judge from accomplishments and resume relative to their era.

          Also T-S is a dumbass who has clearly shown he has no idea what he's talking about.
          That's ******.

          If RJJ was the greatest fighter to ever live and most likely win all of his H2H matchups, then that's what it is, regardless of time frame.

          Essentially, you're saying a fighter can only be as great as who's alive to fight him.

          RJJ destroyed everyone in his prime, but because he wasn't born in a certain era or because certain fighters from a certain era weren't present when RJJ was fighting, let's put RJJ in this room with a glass ceiling thus only allowing him to go so high because "the available competition at the time wasn't worthy".

          F outta here with that ******ness.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Barnburner View Post
            My list just for reference:

            1. Harry Greb
            2. Willie Pep
            3. Gene Tunney
            4. Jim Jeffries
            5. Jimmy McLarnin
            6. Benny Leonard
            7. John L Sullivan (yeah he was bareknuckle but one tough SOB)
            8. Jim Corbett
            9. Benny Leonard
            10. Barney Ross
            11. Mickey Walker
            12. Tony Canzoneri
            13. Bob Fitzsimmons
            14. Battling Nelson
            15. Benny Lynch
            16. Andre Ward
            17. Sam Langford
            18. Joe Calzaghe
            19. Tommy Loughran
            20. Maxie Rosenbloom
            I hope you have a nice white robe to go with that list

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Barnburner View Post
              My list just for reference:

              1. Harry Greb
              2. Willie Pep
              3. Gene Tunney
              4. Jim Jeffries
              5. Jimmy McLarnin
              6. Benny Leonard
              7. John L Sullivan (yeah he was bareknuckle but one tough SOB)
              8. Jim Corbett
              9. Benny Leonard
              10. Barney Ross
              11. Mickey Walker
              12. Tony Canzoneri
              13. Bob Fitzsimmons
              14. Battling Nelson
              15. Benny Lynch
              16. Andre Ward
              17. Sam Langford
              18. Joe Calzaghe
              19. Tommy Loughran
              20. Maxie Rosenbloom

              yes.........

              calzaghe appears twice in my top 35

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by BoxingGenius27 View Post
                That's ******.

                If RJJ was the greatest fighter to ever live and most likely win all of his H2H matchups, then that's what it is, regardless of time frame.

                Essentially, you're saying a fighter can only be as great as who's alive to fight him.

                RJJ destroyed everyone in his prime, but because he wasn't born in a certain era or because certain fighters from a certain era weren't present when RJJ was fighting, let's put RJJ in this room with a glass ceiling thus only allowing him to go so high because "the available competition at the time wasn't worthy".

                F outta here with that ******ness.
                Yes that is what it is, but it's not an accurate way of comparing them.

                No I'm not saying that, I'm saying your graded best on the relative opponents essentially.

                If you beat a fighter who has held the undisputed title for 10 defences and avoided no-one today, and you did the same 90 years ago. As long as the opponents are of a similar calibre you get the same amount of credit.

                For example it is noted that Marciano's title opponents were weaker than some other champions later on, for example Muhammad Ali, so he doesn't get as much credit for those wins.

                It's a hard thing to explain but if you actually try to make a list and justify it through accomplishments and resume you'll get the idea. It's worth a shot.

                Saying "roy jones beats everyone so hes the best" isn't anything really. Not that you said that of course, it's just to exaggerate my point.

                It isn't any sort of analysis at all nor an accurate way of comparing fighters from different eras, considering it's about 100x more subjective than resume comparison.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by New England View Post
                  yes.........

                  calzaghe appears twice in my top 35
                  I was unsure if Calzaghe was in my top 20 because that didn't leave any room for the "Philidelphia Fireman Harry McChesthair." as he had to be pushed out.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Barnburner View Post
                    My list just for reference:

                    1. Harry Greb
                    2. Willie Pep
                    3. Gene Tunney
                    4. Jim Jeffries
                    5. Jimmy McLarnin
                    6. Benny Leonard
                    7. John L Sullivan (yeah he was bareknuckle but one tough SOB)
                    8. Jim Corbett
                    9. Benny Leonard
                    10. Barney Ross
                    11. Mickey Walker
                    12. Tony Canzoneri
                    13. Bob Fitzsimmons
                    14. Battling Nelson
                    15. Benny Lynch
                    16. Andre Ward
                    17. Sam Langford
                    18. Joe Calzaghe
                    19. Tommy Loughran
                    20. Maxie Rosenbloom
                    This man is smoking the Scottish good stuff. He ranks Andre ward and his short career with only 1 linear title and zero obvious names that would make the HOF over Manny and floyd with their multiple linear titles and numerous likely HOF elite fighters they have wins over on their resumes.

                    This list is clearly an attempt at humor.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by croz View Post
                      Boxing was never the most popular sport on the planet, not even in the US. Boxing didn't start properly growing on an international level until after Muhammad Ali retired when suddenly every country on Earth wanted their own Ali.

                      This was said about the health of boxing back in 1937
                      Jack Dempsey knows his own game. When he says boxing will be washed up within a year, unless something's done, he's talking straight from his heart. "It isn't boxing anymore, he complains, "but just a big lawsuit."
                      Still, when Jack thinks the evils of his former occupation can be cleaned up by appointing a czar-someone like judge landis, who runs organised baseball, there is room for doubt


                      Here's an article of 1941 which says people have been saying boxing is dead for years:
                      http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...-is-dead&hl=en


                      These are hardly words to be directed at the biggest sport on the planet.
                      and were they right? especially if ali - frazier 1 is considered the biggest fight ever ( for which an argument can certainly be made.)

                      dempsey used to fight in front of 100k people.

                      louis - schmeling 2 had 75 k spectators and was one of the biggest radio broadcasts of all time



                      do you really think boxing is bigger or better than it used to be, when there were more fighters and it was a more widely watched sport.?

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