It is INTELLECTUALLY & ANALYTICALLY DISHONEST to rank fighters with NO FIGHT FOOTAGE

[The Tase]

There's no denying that for other sports, I agree, but boxing is a sport where this doesn't apply nearly to the same degree IMO, outside of heavyweights. The other weight divisions are the same size today they were 50 or 60 years ago, and they are not really that less athletic. They definitely had more stamina back then, and overall better technique.

not even close. referees also judging fights. intense mafia involvement. One of the biggest differences, 24 hr rehydration.

boxers back then had to weigh in the same day of fight night which actually caused them to have actually less stamina, a lot of them were weight drained trying to make weight, and they lacked energy.

the 24 hr weigh in has actually improved the health and quality of boxers come fight night in comparison to back then when a lot of fighters were suffering the ill effects of making weight which showed up in fights.

[bojangles1987]

not even close. referees also judging fights. intense mafia involvement. One of the biggest differences, 24 hr rehydration.

boxers back then had to weigh in the same day of fight night which actually caused them to have actually less stamina, a lot of them were weight drained trying to make weight, and they lacked energy.

the 24 hr weigh in has actually improved the health and quality of boxers come fight night in comparison to back then when a lot of fighters were suffering the ill effects of making weight which showed up in fights.

I thought we were talking the fighters themselves, not the differences in the sport?

I can watch Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake LaMotta fight, I can watch Henry Armstrong fight, and I don't see any differences in speed, strength, or reflexes as any fighters today. And the great fighters of these past eras absolutely, 100% had more stamina and better conditioning. Top ranked fighters today have problems going 12 rounds, these fighters were fighting a hell of a lot more often and had to be ready to go 15. I can't imagine many fighters today even going 15.

[The Tase]

I thought we were talking the fighters themselves, not the differences in the sport?

I can watch Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake LaMotta fight, I can watch Henry Armstrong fight, and I don't see any differences in speed, strength, or reflexes as any fighters today. And the great fighters of these past eras absolutely, 100% had more stamina and better conditioning. Top ranked fighters today have problems going 12 rounds, these fighters were fighting a hell of a lot more often and had to be ready to go 15. I can't imagine many fighters today even going 15.

change in rehydration rules directly affect fighters and their performance.

We are talking about athletes and its very relevant because it affects them physically.

& why wouldnt fighters of today be able to go 15? With the advancement in sports medicine and nutrition and how athletes take great care of their body today to make millions of dollars, they can easily adapt to 15.

they would just have to change their punch output strategically and just pace themselves.

[B-Bomber]

athletes of today are better than athletes of the 1920s,30s,40s, etc...

As modernity spawned better medicine, sports science, technology, nutrition, knowledge etc. and as professional sports became the massive corporate monster that it is now, being a pro athlete became a whole new ball game.

Young athletes are targeted and trained before they even hit puberty. Parents spend thousands of dollars to send their athletically inclined child to sports academys which basically is preparatory professional academies and start aggressively planning their pro careers.

Athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster now than they were back then. NFL physical statistics are evidence of this. Just watch the nfl combine. Just watch the olympics as 100m times continue to drop.

There's no denying it.

All you say is very true, especially the amount of money people spend, in the hope to create a future star. It goes for many sports, and it's exactly what makes sport way less enjoyable. Sport should be about competition, not money. However, it is utopical.

Back to the point, modern athletes are bigger and stronger, but are they tougher?.
Just compare the environment. What they needed to endure for a living.

Boxing is not a running, or weight lifting contest. It takes guts, desire to win.

[bojangles1987]

change in rehydration rules directly affect fighters and their performance.

We are talking about athletes and its very relevant because it affects them physically.

& why wouldnt fighters of today be able to go 15? With the advancement in sports medicine and nutrition and how athletes take great care of their body today to make millions of dollars, they can easily adapt to 15.

they would just have to change their punch output strategically and just pace themselves.

Because I watch world class fighters struggle to go 12? They already generally throw less punches than fighters used to and clinch a hell of a lot more, if they threw less and clinched more to pace themselves for 15 almost every fight that went 15 would be awful.

Again, I watch fighters from the 40s or 50s or 60s, and I don't see fighters that are physically inferior to fighters today. I don't see guys that are slower and weaker. I see the same speed, strength, and skill that any great in modern day boxing has. And I see them doing it going 15, throwing a lot more.

[bojangles1987]

All you say is very true, especially the amount of money people spend, in the hope to create a future star. It goes for many sports, and it's exactly what makes sport way less enjoyable. Sport should be about competition, not money. However, it is utopical.

Back to the point, modern athletes are bigger and faster, but are they tougher?.
Just compare the environment. What they needed to endure for a living.

Boxing is not a running, or weight lifting contest. It takes guts, desire to win.

They aren't bigger and faster though, except for heavyweights, and even there they aren't faster. Boxing is a big exception to every other sport that way. A guy weighing 5'6" 147 fighter is a 5'6" 147 fighter, no matter how many years pass. And I've seen nothing to suggest welterweights today are any faster overall than fighters 50 or 60 years ago.

[SplitSecond]

I thought we were talking the fighters themselves, not the differences in the sport?

I can watch Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake LaMotta fight, I can watch Henry Armstrong fight, and I don't see any differences in speed, strength, or reflexes as any fighters today. And the great fighters of these past eras absolutely, 100% had more stamina and better conditioning. Top ranked fighters today have problems going 12 rounds, these fighters were fighting a hell of a lot more often and had to be ready to go 15. I can't imagine many fighters today even going 15.

going those extra rounds is what diminished the ole' timers explosiveness i think
so many speed demons(real speed demons, with power) ever since the 70's came around

training must have changed
think sprinting and distance running

or maybe im wrong, any fighters you can recommend as explosive/fast as leonard, taylor, camacho, mike tyson, roy jones, floyd mayweather, manny pacquiao, amir khan, yuriorikis gamboa, andre berto gary russell etc?

and imo that's what makes fighters today better, they hit alot harder are faster, just overall more powerful, skills wise though, probabley the ole' timers

[B-Bomber]

Your are right, indeed. I edited it in bigger and stronger just after posting

And even the stronger could be debatable. However, my point was more on the mental aspect of boxing.

[The Tase]

Because I watch world class fighters struggle to go 12? They already generally throw less punches than fighters used to and clinch a hell of a lot more, if they threw less and clinched more to pace themselves for 15 almost every fight that went 15 would be awful.

Again, I watch fighters from the 40s or 50s or 60s, and I don't see fighters that are physically inferior to fighters today. I don't see guys that are slower and weaker. I see the same speed, strength, and skill that any great in modern day boxing has. And I see them doing it going 15, throwing a lot more.

you watch on youtube but if you actually talk to real people who watched fights back then they would tell you that the 24 hr rehydration rule has made it physically safer for fighters of today and they are in much better shape. If you talk to a fight fan who watched boxing back then they would tell you that a lot of fighters struggled to make weight (hence the rule change) and it affected them greatly in their performance in the ring.

They aren't bigger and faster though, except for heavyweights, and even there they aren't faster. Boxing is a big exception to every other sport that way. A guy weighing 5'6" 147 fighter is a 5'6" 147 fighter, no matter how many years pass. And I've seen nothing to suggest welterweights today are any faster overall than fighters 50 or 60 years ago.

of course they are bigger.

welterweights come fight night as 154 lbers some as high as 160lbs. bantamweights coming in as super feathers and lightweights. Its like this across the board in almost all divisions.

boxing has changed greatly. to say it has always been the same is ridiculous.

[bojangles1987]

going those extra rounds is what diminished the ole' timers explosiveness i think
so many speed demons(real speed demons, with power) ever since the 70's came around

or maybe im wrong, any fighters you can recommend as explosive/fast as leonard, taylor, camacho, mike tyson, roy jones, floyd mayweather, manny pacquiao, amir khan, yuriorikis gamboa, gary russell etc?

I can't claim to be completely knowledgeable about every fighter from 60 years ago. I'm sure someone who is would be able to give you names of speed demons like them. Maybe not Jones, no one really compares to Roy it seems, most historians seem to agree on that.

I wouldn't say Robinson was really any slower than Floyd or Leonard. Joe Louis's handspeed was better than any heavyweight today. Ali was faster than Tyson.