What's the difference

[chloelloyd]

I never thought Cotto was drained at all, I hate when people give that excuse. Pac beat a past prime-still good Cotto down.

De La Hoya was crap because Oscar was clearly done, but you can't knock Pac for it because that was the mega star fight. The Margarito CW for a title at 154 was a joke though, especially since Margarito hadn't won a good fight in over 2 years.

Great Post man. Excellent points made.
Pacquaio's win over Cotto was a very good win. Just like Floyd's win over Cotto was a very good win. Some boxers have 'stretches' of prime and good fight periods, Evander Holyfield is a great example. Holyfield looked amazing against Bowe, looked bad for a while, then looked amazing against Tyson. In my opinion, that's the same in the Cotto situation for his fights against Manny and Floyd. He brought it against two ATG Champions and came up short, nothing to be ashamed of there.
Now in regards to Ward vs Dawson. I honestly do believe Dawson was severely effected by the weight drain, that being said no version of Chad could have beaten Ward. If the fight took place at 175 Ward would still have won, the difference being Ward would have won on the score cards like 9-3 or 10-2.
Let's also not forget, last night's Andre Ward was the best and most aggressive version of Ward ever. He is just hitting his prime and still improving with every fight.
It's Dawson's management's fault. He made 650,000 or so for this fight.
After the tax, the fees, the cuts, Dawson would probably pocket around 250k. That is good money, but not great money for a 30 year old boxing champion. He could have made 400,000 against a 175 guy. I don't believe that extra 200,000 is worth what he went through. He is a family man and seem to have no bad habits, so it's not like he needed the money.

Once again, I take nothing away from Ward's dominance and incredible performance. Nobody from 160-175 is favored to beat Ward. He is a future ATG in the makings.

[goblin213]

Don't forget he got dropped against Adamek and barely survived.

That journey man Shannon Miller dropped him also.

[DARKSEID]

It's simple really. Racism.

The same way people hate on Pacquiao for fighting old past prime fighters and then support Haye for calling out Vitali.

Pure unadulterated blatant Racism.

If Pacquiao was black, the same people would be calling him the second coming of aaron pryor.

[hectari]

Easy. Ward was the champion and his belts were on the line. If you want to take a man's belt, fight him at his weight.

Cotto was the champion. Should have fought him at 147.

The Margarito fight was for a belt at 154. Fight should have taken place at 154.

De La Hoya/Pac was not a championship fight.

has nothing to do with the thread, its about weight issues not titles.

if you want to go there, I know for sure that if Pac did the same thing ward did and fought a fighter coming down a division so the fighter could fight for Pacs belt, all hell would break loose, and they wouldn't give him credit for the win, if its not catch weights its steroids or fixed fights or the guy was drained.

Ward can work with Victor Conte and still get a pass, but when Nonito uses conte they were saying he is on drugs.

These are the same ones crying victim and claiming bias, yet they are bias toward their own fighters and hate anyone else who isn't their own. They feel its ok for them to discredit everyone else especially pacquiao, but only give credit to a guy they like and if anyone discredits the guys they like they will play victim (yall just haters card) and race cards.

[hectari]

The most bogus criticisms of the whole CW thing are when it comes to the DLH fight. I hear constantly how Pac drained Oscar - but have people really forgotten that DLH cherrypicked Pac and made him move up essentially 3 weight divisions?(he had only one fight at LW at that point).

If that revisionism isn't bad enough, then they outright lie about rehydration clauses that Pac supposedly had against Cotto, DLH, and Hatton.

First thing - if Ricky was subject to a rehydration clause, we'd have heard it from Ricky right after he'd woken up from the canvas.

Secondly, from what I remember, all his talk about hydration clauses was propagated by the Mayweather family - you know, the same family who accused Pac on being on some mystical 500 year old war drug

Catchweights are only a problem when PACQUIAO does them thats what it seems like

[hectari]

Wards win over Froch and kessler are better than his win versus Dawson. Dawson wasn't special it was just that hbo built it up.

Dawson is a timid fighter, and when he fought Ward he had no energy, he didn't even throw any jabs or enough to even have ward have to counter over it much, yet the bias HBO crew said he took chads jab away? Chad is classy but he said Ward didnt even want to negotiate a catchweight with him before this fight happened.

Yet nobody ever gave credit to Pacman for taking Cottos jab, instead they said why did Cotto stop throwing the jabs.....because pacman took that away by using the lead left and timed it.

They also say Clottey would have won if he threw more punches, this is the crap that I hate hearing, because if Clottey did open up he even said himself he would get killed, thats why guys dont open up with Pacman he gets the better of you in exchanges, every time JMM got dropped was him trying to mix it up.

Its seriously sick how so many people hate on Manny, they have to find a reason to hate on the guy. If he sucks so much than eery fighter he beat must really suck and should never get into the hall of fame right for letting a guy who sucks beat them?

[BoxingGenius27]

Wards win over Froch and kessler are better than his win versus Dawson. Dawson wasn't special it was just that hbo built it up.

Dawson isn't special?

He's the first future hall of famer that I know not to be special.

[HeroBando]

Dawson isn't special?

He's the first future hall of famer that I know not to be special.

Not yet. He looked like a can't miss HOF, but it'll be an uphill climb after this

[Reloaded]

what? DLH had no title, his previous fight was at 150.

I said Cottos title you idiot , and he looked like sheeet at 150 why mention that when he was 5 lbs lighter and Intravenous fluids to gain 2 lb , Forbes would have stopped Oscar the night Pac fought him WTF are you on about ?

Pac Forced Cotto down to defend his own title , Cotto was also leaned on by Arum to accept the deal ,,,,

All of the Pac CWs have nothing near the same scenario as Chad and Andre except Oscar .

Stop throwing numbers if you dont understand thats its not the number but how the individual can represent that number at the time , not years ago , lets see Manny today make 135 even 140 will hurt him today , very few on this forum have a clue about the effects of weight , most fanboys only see a number .

[HeroBando]

I said Cottos title you idiot , and he looked like sheeet at 150 why mention that when he was 5 lbs lighter and Intravenous fluids to gain 2 lb , Forbes would have stopped Oscar the night Pac fought him WTF are you on about ?

Pac Forced Cotto down to defend his own title , Cotto was also leaned on by Arum to accept the deal ,,,,

All of the Pac CWs have nothing near the same scenario as Chad and Andre except Oscar .

Stop throwing numbers if you dont understand thats its not the number but how the individual can represent that number at the time , not years ago , lets see Manny today make 135 even 140 will hurt him today , very few on this forum have a clue about the effects of weight , most fanboys only see a number .

No Cotto mention in that paragraph, be clearer next time. And Pac offered Cotto 147 before he offered 150. That's not a catchweight, right? I mean, Cotto is a lot smaller at 154 vs Dawson at 175, Dawson is not asking for no catchweights to defend his belt.