Is Manny Pacquiao the most overrated fighter of the past 25 years?

[The Big Dunn]

So again no factual rebuttal. Here ill show you how its done:




Links:

1990s Ring Magainze P4P rankings:

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...r_Pound--1990s

2000s

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...r_Pound--2000s

2010s

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...r_Pound--2010s



Now can you pleas do the same?

You went to boxrec as your factual source.

[Brother Jay]

Pacquiao was voted BOTH BY RING MAGAZINE & BWAA as the fighter of the decade.

Longer p4p 1# reign, more division titles, more fighter of the year awards, more knockout of the year awards, more lineal lineal belts, more hall of famers beaten, more hall of fame wins, more everything.

Jut think about the long rich storied history of boxing;


Pacquiao is the only fighter in history to win a fly weight title & a light weight title.

Pacquiao is the only fighter in history to win a fly weight title & a welterweight title.

EVER.


Pacquiao is the most decorated & accomplished fighter of his era. He is more decorated & accomplished than Roy Jones Jr., Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Oscar De La Hoya or any fighter from his era.


No insignificant trivial thread in NSB is going to change that.


DEAL WITH IT.

Pacquiao is the recipient of more awards, but most certainly not the best fighter of even the last 5 years.

Pacquiao is definitely NOT the most accomplished of any era. His accomplishments above 135lbs are moot. Between vacant titles and catchweights, Manny Pacquiao has all but nullified the glory he would have received had he fought those matches in legitimate fashion.

Championships do not change hands under catchweight rules. Vacant titles are only useful when there isn't a recognized champion in the division. If used otherwise, its a sideways crab attempt to raise your standings without facing a champion.

Manny Pacquiao's first step up to world class competition came in his 41st fight. He only has 59 fights!

Manny gets big credit for Barrera and Morales who beat him in their first bout, but JMM arguably taught Pacquiao boxing lessons in all three of their fights. The last fight was a clear win for JMM, and the boxing world knows it. That's why even though Pacquiao got the official "W", he's been demoted on many lists.

If Pacquiao beat Devon Alexander next, would it be a big deal or help his legacy? The answer is no ... because Bradley already defeated Alexander and because of that, Devon's perceived threat is now largely diminished if at all there anymore passed a puncher's chance.

With that said, why has Pacquiao been given credit for the majority of his fights since Diaz? DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley were ALL coming of confidence-shattering, career losses. Their perceived threat was removed. Knowing this to be true, why did Pacquiao target each and EVERY ONE of them only after they were coming off those career losses?

Why the double standard?

I don't care what boxing writers association award Pacquiao has, the RANK of his opponents is all that ever matters when weighing the significance of a win. Pacquiao has deliberately avoided any fighter ranked third or better since Diaz aside from JMM and Bradley. Beating a 5th ranked fighter is no accomplishment. It might be an exciting fight, but there is no glory in beating a man ranked 5th or worse.

I'll give Pacquiao the credit he deserves. He beat Barrera and Morales soundly. Outside of that, he's got 40 fights against an array of bums and his whole campaign at 147lbs was a farce. Manny Pacquiao is exciting to watch and anyone who denies that is a liar.

But best fighter? Hell no. He's not even the best at WW. He was never even a factor at jrMW as he fought a banned WW for a vacant jrMW belt.

End of story: Count Pacquiao's win beginning with Barrera and ending with Diaz. That's the real bulk of his legitimate legacy. Only those 18 fights. everything else before that is padding. Everything else after it is catchweights, rehydration stipulations and vacant belts.

He's a great fighter, but his legacy is not and neither are his last three fights. You've got to beat the best to be the best, and Pacquiao has not consistently done that.

Before anyone takes offense, remember a great legacy is about who you beat and what rank they were when you beat them. If they weren't ranked third or better, then the fight wasn't about glory or even rank. It was a mandatory or a tune up. It sure wasn't against a contender. Real contenders are ranked third or better.

[therealpugilist]

do you know how many belts & so called "champions" are in each division?

If you actually knew boxing instead of pretending to be a knowledgeable with your oldschool avi you would know that anybody can be a champion in today's high proliferation of belts & division.

but since it fits your agenda go ahead while i laugh.

agenda, what are you talking about...why are grown men on a boxing board worried about an avi, aint no pretending when the knowledge is their sorry dude

, if anyone can be a champion in todays belts and divisions well you must not think too highly of the 8 titles at 8 weights Manny won?

[The Tase]

Diaz was a bum but thats not Manny's fault. Just like its not floyd's fault Baldo beat Zab. But for ANYONE to legitmize the 154 title speaks to the real problems in this sport.

Ultimately, Manny has won titles during a period in the sports history where everyone connected to the sport has cheapend what thotitles and belts mean.

exactly. & floyd falls into that category as well. He's from pac's era. David diaz at least has gone up against humberto zoto, zab judah, kendall holt.

Who has Henry Bruseles faced? or philip ndou?

we can do this to every fighter's resume.

[SpeedKillz]

ive been shoulder rolling F mos left & right in this thread i dunno even know anymore. but since you are one, i guess im talkng to you as well.

you cant shoulder roll punches homie. with your napoleonic complex way of speaking, you gotta be 4 feet tall. how can you shoulder roll? I think you are lying about that one...

[The Tase]

You went to boxrec as your factual source.

so not only have i provided you a source, i have to read & analyze it for you?



please read it again.

[The Tase]

you cant shoulder roll punches homie. with your napoleonic complex way of speaking, you gotta be 4 feet tall. how can you shoulder roll? I think you are lying about that one...

napoleon complex? Like floyd? surprised you actually know something.

[therealpugilist]

Pacquiao is the recipient of more awards, but most certainly not the best fighter of even the last 5 years.

Pacquiao is definitely NOT the most accomplished of any era. His accomplishments above 135lbs are moot. Between vacant titles and catchweights, Manny Pacquiao has all but nullified the glory he would have received had he fought those matches in legitimate fashion.

Championships do not change hands under catchweight rules. Vacant titles are only useful when there isn't a recognized champion in the division. If used otherwise, its a sideways crab attempt to raise your standings without facing a champion.

Manny Pacquiao's first step up to world class competition came in his 41st fight. He only has 59 fights!

Manny gets big credit for Barrera and Morales who beat him in their first bout, but JMM arguably taught Pacquiao boxing lessons in all three of their fights. The last fight was a clear win for JMM, and the boxing world knows it. That's why even though Pacquiao got the official "L", he's been demoted on many lists.

If Pacquiao beat Devon Alexander next, would it be a big deal or help his legacy? The answer is no ... because Bradley already defeated Alexander and because of that, Devon's perceived threat is now largely diminished if at all there anymore passed a puncher's chance.

With that said, why has Pacquiao been given credit for the majority of his fights since Diaz? DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley were ALL coming of confidence-shattering, career losses. Their perceived threat was removed. Knowing this to be true, why did Pacquiao target each and EVERY ONE of them only after they were coming off those career losses?

Why the double standard?

I don't care what boxing writers association award Pacquiao has, the RANK of his opponents is all that ever matters when weighing the significance of a win. Pacquiao has deliberately avoided any fighter ranked third or better since Diaz aside from JMM and Bradley. Beating a 5th ranked fighter is no accomplishment. It might be an exciting fight, but there is no glory in beating a man ranked 5th or worse.

I'll give Pacquiao the credit he deserves. He beat Barrera and Morales soundly. Outside of that, he's got 40 fights against an array of bums and his whole campaign at 147lbs was a farce. Manny Pacquiao is exciting to watch and anyone who denies that is a liar.

But best fighter? Hell no. He's not even the best at WW. He was never even a factor at jrMW as he fought a banned WW for a vacant jrMW belt.

End of story: Count Pacquiao's win beginning with Barrera and ending with Diaz. That's the real bulk of his legitimate legacy. Only those 18 fights. everything else before that is padding. Everything else after it is catchweights, rehydration stipulations and vacant belts.

He's a great fighter, but his legacy is not and neither are his last three fights. You've got to beat the best to be the best, and Pacquiao has not consistently done that.

Before anyone takes offense, remember a great legacy is about who you beat and what rank they were when you beat them. If they weren't ranked third or better, then the fight wasn't about glory or even rank. It was a mandatory or a tune up. It sure wasn't against a contender. Real contenders are ranked third or better.

well though out and explained post.....I totally

ATG, hall of famer, he just isnt the best fighter of this era or the past 25 years

[Roman Moreno]

.....they defeated more champions....duh

we dont who the hall of famers are gonna be until all their careers are over

That's all that means though right? It doesn't mean that they're greater than him cuz' they defeated more champs right?

[The Tase]

you cant shoulder roll punches homie. with your napoleonic complex way of speaking, you gotta be 4 feet tall. how can you shoulder roll? I think you are lying about that one...

i know more than you that's for sure.