Froch's resume - nothing legendary

[IronDanHamza]

Not really, other than Abraham, Bute, and Pascal his resume isn't anything to brag about, Abraham and Pascal are not particular impressive either, I don't see how his resume is deeper.

It's not like it's an ATG resume or anything.

But it's obviously deeper than Ward's outside his Top 3 wins.

Ward's top 2 wins are great, Abraham a good win. Other than that, he has pretty much nothing.

Which is why I give Froch the edge as it stands in terms of resume.

Ward will take him over in a matter of months were he to win.

[New England]

No, not ranked over Ward right now.

Ward is #1 at 168. And that's not debatable.

But, in terms of resumes. Who has the stronger resume at 168 historically, it's Froch.

But, after Ward beat's Dawson, or if he beats Dawson. As long as Dawson makes the weight fine. He'll already have overtaken him.

The history of 168 is so weak, that 1 win can make you overtake another fighter.

Ward is still relatively early in his career and most likely will end up being the greatet 168 Lb'er ever. He's already almost there.

if froch is such a great quantity then surely ward's win over him would have tremendous weight, given that froch was in his prime and ward beat him so soundly. additionally, ward holds a victory over the only other man to beat froch. another very sound victory.

i think you're overrating him. he's an awesome fighter, but his resume just isnt that good. he's fighting the best of what's out there, but they are not very good fighters. the two best fighters he fought beat him.


pascal is not a terrific fighter. one of the worst lineal champions ever.
andre dirrell's accomplishments will more than likely fall far short of his potential. that fight was also razor thin.
abraham sucks. horrible fighter. uli wegner ought to be ashamed of himself.
glen johnson was faded
and taylor was flat out shot, even in '09

the bute win is his best by the look of things (you've got to wait longer than the monday after the fight to determine the weight of a win by seeing how the careers play out. and bute's not that good either clearly. his resume was never terrific, and carl froch opened the hell up on him, which he's not able to do against most top fighters.

[RubenSonny]

Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell and Johnson.

These are obviously better wins than what Ward has outside of Froch, Abraham and Kessler.

It's obvious that Froch has a big edge in terms of depth.

You are really giving him credit for those fighters, I mean Pascal okay I guess so, but the rest?

[RubenSonny]

if froch is such a great quantity then surely ward's win over him would have tremendous weight, given that froch was in his prime and ward beat him so soundly. additionally, ward holds a victory over the only other man to beat froch. another very sound victory.

i think you're overrating him. he's an awesome fighter, but his resume just isnt that good. he's fighting the best of what's out there, but they are not very good fighters. the two best fighters he fought beat him.


pascal is not a terrific fighter. one of the worst lineal champions ever.
andre dirrell's accomplishments will more than likely fall far short of his potential. that fight was also razor thin.
abraham sucks. horrible fighter. uli wegner ought to be ashamed of himself.
glen johnson was faded
and taylor was flat out shot, even in '09

the bute win is his best by the look of things (you've got to wait longer than the monday after the fight to determine the weight of a win by seeing how the careers play out. and bute's not that good either clearly. his resume was never terrific, and carl froch opened the hell up on him, which he's not able to do against most top fighters.

I couldn't have put it better.

[crold1]

You are really giving him credit for those fighters, I mean Pascal okay I guess so, but the rest?

Taylor and Johnson were outstanding wins. Dirrell was ugly as sin but he eeked one out against a stinker. Could have gone either way and Dirrell has serious physical talent.

And Kessler too could have gone either way and was a great fight to boot. I think he deserves a ton of credit for the overall body of work. I wouldn't rate him above Ward.

[IronDanHamza]

You are really giving him credit for those fighters, I mean Pascal okay I guess so, but the rest?

Yeah.

I give him credit for beating Taylor when the majority of people expected him to lose. I can't really not give him credit when I picked him to lose.

Dirrell? Yeah, I give him credit. Dirrell's unproven but he's obviously a good fighter and one of the top fighters at 168.

Johnson? Not really. Decent win at best but what does Ward have outside of his top 3 that's better?

Then he has Bute, Abraham and Pascal.

It's obvious that its at the very least debatable.

[New England]

Taylor and Johnson were outstanding wins. Dirrell was ugly as sin but he eeked one out against a stinker. Could have gone either way and Dirrell has serious physical talent.

And Kessler too could have gone either way and was a great fight to boot. I think he deserves a ton of credit for the overall body of work. I wouldn't rate him above Ward.

What?

outstanding is a funny word. it's possible i'm misunderstanding you

but those are not spectacular wins. glen johnson is ancient.
taylor was a fraction of what he used to be at his best when he fought froch in '09

[IronDanHamza]

if froch is such a great quantity then surely ward's win over him would have tremendous weight, given that froch was in his prime and ward beat him so soundly. additionally, ward holds a victory over the only other man to beat froch. another very sound victory.

Absolutely.

Ward has the best 2 wins. No doubt.

Those wins are so good that despite Froch having obviously the more depth. It's still arguable.

It's between him and Ward for me. For the best resume's ever at 168.

Ward is one win away from making it not up for debate.

i think you're overrating him. he's an awesome fighter, but his resume just isnt that good. he's fighting the best of what's out there, but they are not very good fighters. the two best fighters he fought beat him.

@ me overrating Froch. That's just got a funny ring to it.

I'm not, though.

Froch's resume isn't great. He doesn't have an amazing resume. But he has a good resume, very good.

He's fought the best in his division one after the other and beaten most of them. Being the clear underdog on 3 of those wins and both loss's. He deserves credit for that.

Hindsights a great thing. But people seem to forget that most picked him to lose those fights that are being discredited now.

Obviously, it doesn't make them amazing, unbelieveable wins.

Beating Taylor and Abraham aren't incredible wins just because he was picked to lose by most. But they're good, he deserves credit for them.

pascal is not a terrific fighter. one of the worst lineal champions ever.
andre dirrell's accomplishments will more than likely fall far short of his potential. that fight was also razor thin.
abraham sucks. horrible fighter. uli wegner ought to be ashamed of himself.
glen johnson was faded
and taylor was flat out shot, even in '09

Don't know, I'd say Hasim Rahman might hold that title.

But I agree with what you're saying mostly. You're not lieing.

But, they were the best, or one of the best on offer. He deserves credit for that.

And, they're better than Ward's wins. Outside of his big 2 and the Abraham win.

the bute win is his best by the look of things (you've got to wait longer than the monday after the fight to determine the weight of a win by seeing how the careers play out. and bute's not that good either clearly. his resume was never terrific, and carl froch opened the hell up on him, which he's not able to do against most top fighters.

Yeah, agreed.

Still a good win though.

After all you've said, again you're not lieing.

Is it really not clear to see that Froch obviously has the more depth than Ward?

I'm not even saying it's clear as day. It's arguable.

Ward has the obviously quality whilst Froch has the obvious quantity.

[IronDanHamza]

Taylor and Johnson were outstanding wins. Dirrell was ugly as sin but he eeked one out against a stinker. Could have gone either way and Dirrell has serious physical talent.

And Kessler too could have gone either way and was a great fight to boot. I think he deserves a ton of credit for the overall body of work. I wouldn't rate him above Ward.

I wouldn't say Johnson was outstanding. It was a decent win but Froch was expected to win and Johnson was obviously well passed it.

But, coming off an impressive KO and considered up there, atleast. I feel it's a decent win.

Taylor I feel was a good win though. Considering no one gave him a chance and he pulled it out.

I don't think it's fair to not credit him for that win.

[New England]

Absolutely.

Ward has the best 2 wins. No doubt.

Those wins are so good that despite Froch having obviously the more depth. It's still arguable.

It's between him and Ward for me. For the best resume's ever at 168.

Ward is one win away from making it not up for debate.



@ me overrating Froch. That's just got a funny ring to it.

I'm not, though.

Froch's resume isn't great. He doesn't have an amazing resume. But he has a good resume, very good.

He's fought the best in his division one after the other and beaten most of them. Being the clear underdog on 3 of those wins and both loss's. He deserves credit for that.

Hindsights a great thing. But people seem to forget that most picked him to lose those fights that are being discredited now.

Obviously, it doesn't make them amazing, unbelieveable wins.

Beating Taylor and Abraham aren't incredible wins just because he was picked to lose by most. But they're good, he deserves credit for them.




Don't know, I'd say Hasim Rahman might hold that title.

But I agree with what you're saying mostly. You're not lieing.

But, they were the best, or one of the best on offer. He deserves credit for that.

And, they're better than Ward's wins. Outside of his big 2 and the Abraham win.



Yeah, agreed.

Still a good win though.

After all you've said, again you're not lieing.

Is it really not clear to see that Froch obviously has the more depth than Ward?

I'm not even saying it's clear as day. It's arguable.

Ward has the obviously quality whilst Froch has the obvious quantity.

depth?
length / strength of his tenure?

3 time champ has a great ring to it

all agreed.

hearing all of this praise for froch coming from you is making my day.


the taylor fight was a classic
bute fight was a huge upset and a terrific performance. a goup de grace

he sealed the deal with me a while back, but i think froch is the real deal. if you want to beat him you'd better be damn good and eat your wheaties.

the bute win was icing on the cake.


i'm just not ready to see that guy in the hall of fame





cliff, you got a vote, brother
what are your BWAA buddies saying about froch?
you think he's at least going to have his name on the ballot if he retires tomorrow?