Hopkins vs Lamotta

[IronDanHamza]

Ok...if jake is more nasty than hopkins, that's fine, but how could he impose this nastiness? This seems to have an empty meaning right now. What exactly would lamotta do to hopkins? What in his arsenal would make this fight close? Again, hopkins is fantastic at using his lateral movement against guys that are coming forward and getting his shots off first. What is jake going to do? He's going to get popped in the face 3-4 times before he can get inside then what? Hopkins clinches and smothers, rinse and repeat. Looong night for lamotta.

That's where Lamotta would put work in.

Hopkins can tie guys up well but I don't think he'd do it on a consistent basis against Lamotta. When Lamotta got to that position he would put in work.

Lamotta going to take shots no doubt but I don't think Hopkins has the kind of pop that makes Lamotta ineffective. He has the ability to slip shots and get inside, he's very skilled himself.

That's where I think Lamotta would have the advantage and would utlimately be effective.

[ИATAS]

That's where Lamotta would put work in.

Hopkins can tie guys up well but I don't think he'd do it on a consistent basis against Lamotta. When Lamotta got to that position he would put in work.

Lamotta going to take shots no doubt but I don't think Hopkins has the kind of pop that makes Lamotta ineffective. He has the ability to slip shots and get inside, he's very skilled himself.

That's where I think Lamotta would have the advantage and would utlimately be effective.

Hopkins had pretty good power at MW during his prime, certainly enough power to rock or stun lamotta. Lamotta did have a great chin of course that's why I see this fight going the distance.

And I disagree about lamotta being that effective getting on the inside, again hopkins has great lateral movement and a great sense of keeping the right amount of distance between his opponent. Hopkins also has always been great at setting traps especially with his sneaky overhand right, which is something lamotta would be walking into all night.

[IronDanHamza]

He was very strong but strength is nullified if he can't land effectively and hopkins in his prime rarely got hit flush. Tough task for lamotta.

Our difference in opinion here is I don't think Lamotta would be ineffective in landing punches on a consistent basis.

Why? Who in that era at MW beats hopkins? SRR is the one man that would give bhop big problems because of the style clash and of course the greatness of SRR but I don't see anyone on lamotta's resume that hopkins couldn't beat at MW.

Think Cerdan-Hopkins would be a 50-50 fight.

Depends what you consider that era if you consider Charley Burley to be the Lamotta-Robinson era then he may beat Hopkins.

Then on the other side of the coin if you consider that era to be later down the line then a young Joey Giardello could maybe beat Hopkins.

Bert Lytell? Hard to judge with no existing film. Same applies with Williams.

There's quite a handful either way you look at it.

[Ray Corso]

Being taller is just that, taller not bigger! If a fighter has reach thats what it is, not bigger!!! The fact that a fighter is shorter the majority of his fights and is a top level performer should tell you that he excells at his style. The same goes for the taller bodied boxers, they should excell at distances and laterial moves. The topic of whose bigger doesn't mean they're stronger either. Most tall fellows have thinner legs than a shorter boxer and the more stout legs are often a benefit when having to absorb power shots. The lighter thinner legged, taller boxer is at a disadvantage then.

Hopkins style wouldn't bother Jake much because the bottom line is I don't believe Hopkins could hurt Jake meaning gaining Jakes repect to proceed with extreme caution. I like Hopkins caginess and his overall skills and he can mislead and trap fighters but against an animal it just won't work. Lamotta KO winner by the 12 to 14th round with Hopkins at his best but hes never at his businiest to beat someone like Jake who will apply pressure that Hopkins has never felt!
When considering fantasy fights with LaMotta you need to understand that his rounds with Sugarman afford him more experience then any other fighter has had then and now. If your a pressure brawler styled fighter whose fought the best ever boxer/punch in the history of boxing and have had successfull rounds against him speaks volumns for your credentials. LaMotta has been to grade/high school./college/ and is a grad of the highest degree in the school of prize fighting. I enjoyed watching Hopkins fight for years because he has a plan and you can watch him work at it all through a fight. I believe he lacks the overall power to keep Lamotta at bay, and if he goes inside to play he will NOT ruff up LaMotta, you see thats when the sorter guy wjo knows how to deliver inside is at his advantage and if you push LaMottas head down you'll pay during and after the fight too! "Be da Boss" gotta love that guy! Ray

[IronDanHamza]

Hopkins had pretty good power at MW during his prime, certainly enough power to rock or stun lamotta. Lamotta did have a great chin of course that's why I see this fight going the distance.

I don't think Hopkins had nearly enough power to rock or stun Lamotta.

Hopkins power is underrated at 160 though I agree.

And I disagree about lamotta being that effective getting on the inside, again hopkins has great lateral movement and a great sense of keeping the right amount of distance between his opponent. Hopkins also has always been great at setting traps especially with his sneaky overhand right, which is something lamotta would be walking into all night.

Again, this is the reason I brought up levels.

Hopkins may have applied that to good fighters, very good fighters. But never anyone on Jake's level nor what he brings to the table.

As you said you can absolutely say the same for Jake but I'm not the one saying either man has next to no chance of winning.

Hopkins simply hasn't shown me he can stop someone on the level of Jake Lamotta getting his way inside and putting in effective work there.

Jake has shown me he has the ability to get inside and put in work against very skillful fighters.

Still think Hopkins would win, though.

[IronDanHamza]

Being taller is just that, taller not bigger! If a fighter has reach thats what it is, not bigger!!! The fact that a fighter is shorter the majority of his fights and is a top level performer should tell you that he excells at his style. The same goes for the taller bodied boxers, they should excell at distances and laterial moves. The topic of whose bigger doesn't mean they're stronger either. Most tall fellows have thinner legs than a shorter boxer and the more stout legs are often a benefit when having to absorb power shots. The lighter thinner legged, taller boxer is at a disadvantage then.

Hopkins style wouldn't bother Jake much because the bottom line is I don't believe Hopkins could hurt Jake meaning gaining Jakes repect to proceed with extreme caution. I like Hopkins caginess and his overall skills and he can mislead and trap fighters but against an animal it just won't work. Lamotta KO winner by the 12 to 14th round with Hopkins at his best but hes never at his businiest to beat someone like Jake who will apply pressure that Hopkins has never felt!
When considering fantasy fights with LaMotta you need to understand that his rounds with Sugarman afford him more experience then any other fighter has had then and now. If your a pressure brawler styled fighter whose fought the best ever boxer/punch in the history of boxing and have had successfull rounds against him speaks volumns for your credentials. LaMotta has been to grade/high school./college/ and is a grad of the highest degree in the school of prize fighting. I enjoyed watching Hopkins fight for years because he has a plan and you can watch him work at it all through a fight. I believe he lacks the overall power to keep Lamotta at bay, and if he goes inside to play he will NOT ruff up LaMotta, you see thats when the sorter guy wjo knows how to deliver inside is at his advantage and if you push LaMottas head down you'll pay during and after the fight too! "Be da Boss" gotta love that guy! Ray

I agree with almost all of your post except the stoppage part. I don't see a stoppage here.

I see a hard fought out Decison, whoever wins. Whether it be 12 or 15 rounds. I think Hopkins could hang in 15 rounders.

[IronDanHamza]

Thanks.

Hopkins has fought a number of guys that come forward. Lamotta is better, but again the style is nothing new. We can say lamotta would be much tougher, more determined, is more of a warrior, better chin, etc., but again when talking about styles, hopkins has seen this style before whereas lamotta never did. See what I'm saying?

Like who???

[ИATAS]

Our difference in opinion here is I don't think Lamotta would be ineffective in landing punches on a consistent basis.

I suppose so[

Think Cerdan-Hopkins would be a 50-50 fight.

Why?

Depends what you consider that era if you consider Charley Burley to be the Lamotta-Robinson era then he may beat Hopkins.

Then on the other side of the coin if you consider that era to be later down the line then a young Joey Giardello could maybe beat Hopkins.

Bert Lytell? Hard to judge with no existing film. Same applies with Williams.

There's quite a handful either way you look at it.

I'm specifically I'm talking about guys that lamotta fought. Obviously we'll have to put aside people with no existing film. If lamotta is an ATG and considered by many to be a top 5 MW, if hopkins fought in that same era against the same opponents I see no reason why hopkins wouldn't have accomplished the same if not more against the same opponents.

[ИATAS]

Like who???

anyone of them, just pick one. Glen Johnson, echols, pavlik, tito to a certain degree, etc. Now like I said, lamotta is better and everything else I said but my point is the STYLE of lamotta is nothing new top hopkins. Maybe the relentlessness or is overall toughness but again his style isn't something hopkins would be unused to and the same can't be said for lamotta, he has no experience as far as I know against a style like hopkins.

[ИATAS]

I don't think Hopkins had nearly enough power to rock or stun Lamotta.

Hopkins power is underrated at 160 though I agree.

Stunning/rocking someone often comes from shots the guy doesn't see happening and lamotta had been stunned numerous times in his career. If hopkins landed a full force overhand right that jake didn't expect, I'm certain it would stun him. Not knock him out or down but it would be enough to rock him.

Again, this is the reason I brought up levels.

Hopkins may have applied that to good fighters, very good fighters. But never anyone on Jake's level nor what he brings to the table.

As you said you can absolutely say the same for Jake but I'm not the one saying either man has next to no chance of winning.

Hopkins simply hasn't shown me he can stop someone on the level of Jake Lamotta getting his way inside and putting in effective work there.

Jake has shown me he has the ability to get inside and put in work against very skillful fighters.

Yes I agree the level isn't the same as lamotta however there isn't a time in hopkins MW career when anyone was successful at applying pressure, not even briefly, really. So the assumption that lamotta would be successful is silly to me. It's a different animal when trying to out muscle and get on the inside of someone of hopkins size and skill set. It's just too difficult to do consistently.