Hopkins vs Lamotta

[ИATAS]

Passed his prime or not he still did it. It's something Lamotta doesn't have in his DNA whether he's 22 or 92 it doesn't matter that's where Lamotta would have a big advantage.

He did the same thing in his prime albeit he was legitiamtely injured but again it's something Lamotta wouldn't do. Do I blame Hopkins? Not at all. Just seperating the differences between them in that regard and how Hopkins 'old school' and 'nastiness' is overrated IMO.

Of course Hopkins can get dirty when he wants but to suggest he would have the upperhand in that regard with Lamotta is laughable IMO. Hopkins has the tools to beat Lamotta but getting into a match of roughhosue tactics isn't how he does it.

who said that would be the deciding factor? The only person in this thread that mentioned the word nasty was me and what I said was hopkins could get nasty when he wanted to as well. That's all that was said. If hopkins is clinching and smothering lamotta and pushing down on his head with his body mass, hitting during clinches etc etc etc it's going to take a toll on the smaller man.

[IronDanHamza]

show me a fight of examples of how lamotta would be effective against hopkins. I just don't see 5'8 lamotta coming forward, jab or not and being effective against hopkins lateral movement and his ability to clinch and smother at will. How would lamotta get his shots off effectively?

Who has Hopkins beat at MW who brings to the table what Lamotta does?

Who has he beat at MW who is in Jake Lamotta's level?

Nobody.

Again, does this mean he'll lose to Lamotta? No, not at all.

I personally lean on Hopkins. I think he'd outbox him to a UD, close but some what clear.

I just think considering he is far and beyond the best and most accomplished MW compared to Hopkins MW victims, who has proven he can beat fighters who are far more skilled than him. Can be ruled out entirely.

[ИATAS]

Why does it matter he's 6'1 though?

Because Lamotta is 5'8 and wouldn't be the bigger stronger guy in the ring, as he was used to being in his fighting days. He wouldn't be able to impose his strength and muscle like he did in most of his fights. It's a completely different ball game when he's the little man going up against a guy as skilled as hopkins.

He's fought and beat skilled MW's. ATG skilled MW's and ATG skilled fighters.

I'm aware. He fought in a golden era full of ATG's. That has nothing to do with head to head though. I'm sure if Hopkins fought back then he would be considered the greatest MW of all time.

[ИATAS]

Who has Hopkins beat at MW who brings to the table what Lamotta does?

Who has he beat at MW who is in Jake Lamotta's level?

Nobody.

You're not replying to my post:

show me a fight of examples of how lamotta would be effective against hopkins. I just don't see 5'8 lamotta coming forward, jab or not and being effective against hopkins lateral movement and his ability to clinch and smother at will. How would lamotta get his shots off effectively?

You're talking about "jakes level" I'm talking about style vs style, head to head. I don't care about lamotta's resume when we're discussing how a fight between them would play out. I want to see examples of how lamotta would deal with a 6'1 Hopkins with his skill set.

[IronDanHamza]

who said that would be the deciding factor? The only person in this thread that mentioned the word nasty was me and what I said was hopkins could get nasty when he wanted to as well. That's all that was said. If hopkins is clinching and smothering lamotta and pushing down on his head with his body mass, hitting during clinches etc etc etc it's going to take a toll on the smaller man.

Nasty was just a word I was using I was by no means attacking you with my post.

He can get nasty aswell but he's not going to be at an advantage with Lamotta there he'd be at a disadvantage. Despite being smaller, he's as storng as Hopkins at the very least.

And again, if Hopkins tried those dirty tactics and what not he would come up short when trying it.

Which is another reason why I see it competitive.

Hopkins has the ability to keep it outside enough to get the victory IMO but at some points it would be just that, nasty on nasty and Lamotta would come out on top, no doubt. I think the spells there would be short though because Hopkins is smart enough to get out of there and tie him up now and then. Although, I'm not sure who would be stronger in the clinch.

[IronDanHamza]

You're not replying to my post:

show me a fight of examples of how lamotta would be effective against hopkins. I just don't see 5'8 lamotta coming forward, jab or not and being effective against hopkins lateral movement and his ability to clinch and smother at will. How would lamotta get his shots off effectively?

You're talking about "jakes level" I'm talking about style vs style, head to head. I don't care about lamotta's resume when we're discussing how a fight between them would play out. I want to see examples of how lamotta would deal with a 6'1 Hopkins with his skill set.

Specifically Hopkins style? Can't think of any.

Now I ask you the same question for Hopkins in regards to Lamotta.

[ИATAS]

Nasty was just a word I was using I was by no means attacking you with my post.

He can get nasty aswell but he's not going to be at an advantage with Lamotta there he'd be at a disadvantage. Despite being smaller, he's as storng as Hopkins at the very least.

And again, if Hopkins tried those dirty tactics and what not he would come up short when trying it.

Which is another reason why I see it competitive.

Hopkins has the ability to keep it outside enough to get the victory IMO but at some points it would be just that, nasty on nasty and Lamotta would come out on top, no doubt. I think the spells there would be short though because Hopkins is smart enough to get out of there and tie him up now and then. Although, I'm not sure who would be stronger in the clinch.

Ok...if jake is more nasty than hopkins, that's fine, but how could he impose this nastiness? This seems to have an empty meaning right now. What exactly would lamotta do to hopkins? What in his arsenal would make this fight close? Again, hopkins is fantastic at using his lateral movement against guys that are coming forward and getting his shots off first. What is jake going to do? He's going to get popped in the face 3-4 times before he can get inside then what? Hopkins clinches and smothers, rinse and repeat. Looong night for lamotta.

[IronDanHamza]

Because Lamotta is 5'8 and wouldn't be the bigger stronger guy in the ring, as he was used to being in his fighting days. He wouldn't be able to impose his strength and muscle like he did in most of his fights. It's a completely different ball game when he's the little man going up against a guy as skilled as hopkins.

He wouldn't be the taller man but he may well be the stronger man.

Lamotta was freakishly strong. One of the strongest MW's of all time IMO

I'm aware. He fought in a golden era full of ATG's. That has nothing to do with head to head though. I'm sure if Hopkins fought back then he would be considered the greatest MW of all time.

I doubt it.

It doesn't mean much H2H in terms of styles but in terms of him being far and beyond the best and most accomplished MW in comparison to Hopkins victims at MW I think it's wrong to rule him out entirely.

[ИATAS]

Specifically Hopkins style? Can't think of any.

Now I ask you the same question for Hopkins in regards to Lamotta.

Thanks.

Hopkins has fought a number of guys that come forward. Lamotta is better, but again the style is nothing new. We can say lamotta would be much tougher, more determined, is more of a warrior, better chin, etc., but again when talking about styles, hopkins has seen this style before whereas lamotta never did. See what I'm saying?

[ИATAS]

He wouldn't be the taller man but he may well be the stronger man.

Lamotta was freakishly strong. One of the strongest MW's of all time IMO

He was very strong but strength is nullified if he can't land effectively and hopkins in his prime rarely got hit flush. Tough task for lamotta.

I doubt it.

Why? Who in that era at MW beats hopkins? SRR is the one man that would give bhop big problems because of the style clash and of course the greatness of SRR but I don't see anyone on lamotta's resume that hopkins couldn't beat at MW.