Comments Thread For: McGirt: Mayweather, Marquez - The True Greats of Our Era

[Brother Jay]

No one cares about HUGH GRANT. He loves to talk about the 8 divisions (7 if you're being honest with yourself) that Pac has won titles in, but then refuses to admit that Manny getting KO'd by Singsurat to lose his title was a legit loss. All the while, his win over Sasakul back then was a legit win.

I'll be the first man to admit that Henry Bruseles and Sharmba Mitchell were POINTLESS fights for Floyd, pointless. He should have just went straight for Gatti after Corley, and should have went for Zab Judah right away at 147 or someone like Luis Collazo for his first test at 147. Bruseles and Mitchell were pointless. Imagine Donaire fighting WV2 and Narvaez at 118.....pointless fights. I will also be the first to admit that Manny sure fought a lot of big fights against a guy that was coming off a really recent loss, that he waited a long a$$ time to give people rematches (Barrera and JMM), and that fighting Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, and even Marquez III when he did was pointless. He should have just went straight for Mosley in 09-10 when Shane was Top 10 P4P and coming off good wins, or someone like Berto as well. Oh well.

Both Manny and Floyd are great fighters, ATG's. Hopefully they end up fighting.

No it wasn't. Every fighter has tune ups. Its just that every fighter's fanbase isn't desperate and ignorant enough to try and hail tune ups as career defining moments like *******s do.

You see, this is how you know mother fcukers are new to the sport. Tune ups are a part of the game. Always have been. Its these new idiots that try to use tune ups as so-called "proof" that a fighter is ducking any given fighter.

Its nonsense, but these are the games that those people play.

I guess it helps them pass the time.

[hugh grant]

You brought up resumes Mr. Hugh Grant, not me. The resume of a professional fighter represents the totality of his career accomplishments. You cannot cherry-pick from his best moments and simultaneously ignore his failures. Any honest observer must acknowlegde that Pac has been defeated decisively during the course of his career. He was not an un-trained kid when he lost his WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP to Singsurat! Get real. Marquez greatness is not based solely on his fights with Pacquiao. It is based on the totality of his career and the fact that his only decisive and undisputable loss came at the hands of Floyd Mayweather. How convenient it is to say "he was not trained properly and starving" to dismiss his losses. By that logic, I can excuse any loss any fighter ever had in the history of the sport....I can just as easily say that "Barrera had a steel plate put in his head before the first Pacquiao fight and was past his prime for the second, therefore Barrera is better!" or "De La Hoya didn't train properly for Pacquiao, therefore he is better" or "Cotto took a beating from Margaritos plaster hands and then had to starve himself to make a catch-weight against Pacquiao, therefore Cotto is better". I believe that Pacquiao defeated them fair and square, but you can clearly see how the circular reasoning can cut both ways. Resumes matter. Pacquiao has been KNOCKED-OUT decisively more than once. There is no hiding from this fact and it MUST be considered when judging him against the all-time greats. He also flopped around the canvas and literally cried and squealed when he was KTFO. The closest thing I've ever seen to that was De La Hoya against Hopkins and they will both be remembered for those displays.....

You dont get it do you? The saying its not who you beat but when you beat them! Pac was a nobody back then, untrained so you want singsurat to give credit for beating Pac, like Morales? So why arent Alis losses held against him at the tale end of his career, i think we know the answer? So stop being deluded.

If you was to tell pac he cant be the greatest fighter of this era, right after his loss to singsurat, and Pac was only in boxing to be that, he might as well retire all those years back. Pac has improved immeasurably since then, so that is what is important.
So floyd greatness is based on his unbeaten record, and considering he dont fight, no wonder hes unbeaten. If SRR and the old time fighters are the yardstick, Floyd is getting as far away as possible from that as you get. We cant breed another generation of fighters like Floyd.

[fcastro1]

marquez is known for having 3 close fights with pacquiao. styles make fights. norton isnt greater than ali. look at marquez resume and it doesnt hold weight to pac at all. he went life and death with a shot barrera. and his other great wins are versus juan diaz, casamayor and katsidis. Every interview for the last 6 years has been about pac. his legacy is related to pac, which shows the greatness of pac. people seem to forget pac started at flweight and gone through the best in the game. A couple bad results and people are quick to forget, but if pac wins versus bradley people will change their tunes again.

[fcastro1]

LOL@best resume

Let's examine that.

Manny's first 40 fights were against bums. Plain and simple. He hadn't fought outside his small corner of southeast Asia.

Then Manny has 14 fights that are noteworthy.

They are against:

1 - Barrera
2 - JMM
3 - Morales
4 - Morales
5 - Morales
6 - Barrera
7 - JMM
8 - DLH
9 - Hatton
10 - Cotto
11 - Clottey
12 - Margarito
13 - Mosley
14 - JMM

Of those 14, he fought Barrera x2, Morales x3, JMM x3. He lost to Morales once when he had to submit blood without notice, and rematched Morales even when Morales got dominated by Raheem. Manny arguably lost to JMM3 times.

Take those wins away, and then you have to factor in that Pacquaio fought DLH at a mannyweight of 145lbs. He faced Hatton ONLY because Mayweather had knocked him out first, and then targeted Cotto ONLY AFTER Margarito had savagely beaten Miguel into bloody submission.

Clottey has never beaten a world champion. Manny was willing to face Margarito ONLY AFTER Mosley knocked him out, and after he was willing to face Mosley, a man that Roach admitted that they had been ducking, once Mayweather dominated him.

Lastly, JMM thoroughly outboxed Pacquiao in the last fight. It wasn't close. It wasn't competitive. JMM shut down Pacquiao's offense, and Pacquiao has no defense. After that match, Pacquiao's reputation took a huge hit and he was demoted on most lists. He knows JMM won, and that's why he's fighting Bradley.

Better resume? In what world? You confuse reputations with actual RANK ... which determines who is at the top and who is not. After fighting Diaz, Pacquiao had NO CARE FOR RANK. He's been fighting guys with big names and unimpressive rank.

In PACLAND, rank doesn't matter. Neither do championships obviously .. which is why Pacquiao doesn't mind competing for vacant titles to make a case for being an eight division titlist.

Manny Pacquiao's resume is HOLLOW. Its has the shell of an impressive career, but like an eggshell, it lacks substance passed his bouts with Barrera and Morales. His entire foray at WW has been a sham, and THAT'S where Manny's legacy found legs!

Fun Fact for Hugh Grant: Fighting boxers ranked 4th & 5th isn't the same as fighting boxers ranked 1st & 2nd. Keep that in mind when you're "weighing" Manny Pacquiao's many accomplishments. If you do that, you'll see for yourself that what he's done pales in comparison to elite fighters like Marquez and Mayweather.

Nice call, McGirt.

its easy to knitpick a fighters career. and if what pac has done is so easy, then why dont other fighter do what hes done. Only the true greats of boxing have moved up in wights to win multiple titles. records are an indication of greatness, like in any sport. and pac is one of the greatest. Stop the hate.

[Mr. Philadel]

Manny Pacquiao is the best of this era why?

Does Manny have the best skills? No.

Does Manny have the best record? No.

Does Manny have the longest winning streak? No.

Does Manny command the biggest numbers? No.

Has Manny fought the most amount of fighters ranked #1, 2 or 3? No.

In what way is Manny Pacquaio the best? Is it because a bunch of writers said that he was? Is it because Manny has had awards bestowed upon him?

Who has Pacquiao beaten to be called the best?

I was always told that you have to beat the best in order to become the best.

Floyd was #1 for years before Pacquiao even had *******s. Manny didn't beat Floyd so how is he #1? By default? Hahaha .. that's laughable.

The difference is real boxing fans say that Floyd is #1 because he has beaten any and everyone ever put in front of him. He's the most skilled and talented boxer in the world. He's consistently fought the #1 and 2 in every division he's competed in and he's made them all look like amateurs. No one has been able to defeat him.

You say that Manny Pacquiao is #1 because of his writer awards. That's it. Because Manny was voted this and that, he's #1 in YOUR mind. Someone else told you that Manny was #1 and YOU took their word for it. He hasn't consistently faced #1 and 2 in every division he's competed in. He has used vacant titles to make a case for being a multi-division titlist. He's used "mannyweights" to drain fighters he himself did not believe he could win against without help.

So tell me again, why is Manny #1 in your eyes? Hahahahaha ..

is this post being ducked?!?!? LMAO

[bojangles1987]

is this post being ducked?!?!? LMAO

No, the post is ****** and has been ripped to shreds in plenty of other threads.

[Brother Jay]

its easy to knitpick a fighters career. and if what pac has done is so easy, then why dont other fighter do what hes done. Only the true greats of boxing have moved up in wights to win multiple titles. records are an indication of greatness, like in any sport. and pac is one of the greatest. Stop the hate.

Nitpick? Nitpick what?

In order to be great you have to do great things.

What has Pacquiao done that was great?

So what he came up from lower weights. So did Oscar DelaHoya.

DLH came up from SFW. The only noteworthy guy he beat that wasn't passed his prime was Hernandez. Chavez? Whitaker? Camacho? All passed prime. DLH came up to MW and has ALWAYS lost when he stepped up to the world stage except once ... against Quartey.

At least DLH won or lost on his own merit. Pacquiao's secret weapon to winning at WW was to beat his opponents at the scales before the bell ever rung!

Is that greatness?

Pacquaio's entire legacy is predicated on what he did at WW, and his campaign at WW was a sham. On six different occasions, Manny Pacquiao waited for six different opponents to lose before he was willing to face them?

Coincidence? Do even *******s believe in such coincidence?

And then Manny Pacquiao's crowning achievement is being an 8 division titlist. Hahaha ... seeking vacant titles and sidestepping champion is NOT greatness and it makes Pacquiao's claim as an 8 division titlist a sham as well.

Going up equates to greatness?

Bob Fitzsimmons was great. He was a MW and went up to HW to capture a title WITHOUT ASKING FOR ANY WEIGHT STIPULATIONS.

Roy Jones was great. He was a MW and went up to HW to capture a title WITHOUT ASKING FOR ANY WEIGHT STIPULATIONS.

DLH ain't great, but at least he came up from SFW to MW and gave it his best. Win or lose, DLH put it on the line, even though he was the most successful boxer never to have gone to the top.

Hell, James Toney is 10 times the boxer Manny Pacquiao is. James has losses, but he was P4P#1. He was the epitome of a boxer/puncher. Skills of a masterboxer. And MOST IMPORTANTLY ... Toney went up and became a HW titlist WITHOUT asking for weight stipulations.

Pacquiao hasn't done any of that except for come up in weight. His best wins came over Barrera and Morales. After Diaz, his resume is a hollow shell.

Just because legions of idiots are willing to turn a blind eye to nonsense doesn't mean that its gone unnoticed by real fans.

Real champions do real things.

*******s need to stand up, take a squat and release the bull****. You're carrying around way too much and you started to stink years ago.

[Brother Jay]

No, the post is ****** and has been ripped to shreds in plenty of other threads.

Ripped to shreds? By who?

No one on this site is ripping my posts in any way.

Especially not you. It would take three pusssies like you to even spell check one of my posts.

Get real.

[Elotero]

I disagree, there always was every style of fighters.

Pac isn't accepted by your community,end of.You won't admit for sure but it's pretty much obvious.(I'm not asian btw).

Don't try to justify a bitter statement from Buddy with some ***** mental gymnastics.

They fought two times in their very prime(Marquez and manny) and Marquez never managed to beat him.

Marquez struggled against Diaz and Katsidis, John, Norwood he has pac number, but IMO Pac had a greater career and is more dangerous fighter.

It seems to be hard for brothers to admit Pac is a great fighter.

I disagree with Pac being great at all.

Catchweights, wanting waaay too much credit for beating old fighters, ducking PED tests. Not great.

Did Chavez (a real ATG) have those kind of criticisms?

Did WHitaker have those kind of criticisms?

Nope.

Just Manny.

[Elotero]

I disagree with buddy as well. Manny deserves to be there.

But what if you truly believe pac lost all 3 of those fights with JMM (which many people do) and docks him for the catchweights winning the ww title at 145 and the JMW title at 150, wouldn''t it make sense to have JMM and floyd?

Dont forget the 135 and 140 farce.