Comments Thread For: McGirt: Mayweather, Marquez - The True Greats of Our Era

[Tony B.]

Because hes got the best resume. Also because he beats Floyds opponents better than him (apart from JMM who Floyd bloated up and didnt give him any warm up fights at 147) and he cleaned out 147 just about.

Is there any reason why you still refuse to acknowledge the 2 videos I just posted? They both clearly show Pacquiao being knocked-OUT (not down, but OUT!) !!! You carry on about his resume, but can you find any similar KTFO losses on the resumes of JMM or Floyd? Please post them if you can. Yes, resumes do matter. Please understand that Pacquiao was KNOCKED-OUT and left crawling and crying (yes, literally CRYING....watch the tapes) on the canvas. This is part of his resume whether or not you choose to face it.

[solo20]

Pacquiao is the best of this ERA Marquez who? Chicken Floyd? WHO?

You give me red k wahaha <----

not a ***** but why are you BUTTHURT?
IT'S A SERIOUS QUESTION

[Chex31]

McGirt is only half right. Those two are great but not truly great.

Marquez got kd by katsidas and lost to chris john and lost 3 times to Pac.

Floyd ducked and dodged and retired and sucker punched his way to where he is now. He is however the ATG when it comes to ducking and dodging.

The truly greats of our era are both Klits, BHop and Pac. This is in no particular order but if I had to put them in order I would put the fighter of the decade first and yall all know who that is.

But you agree that Floyd could hang with the fab four in the 80's, and Manny can't? Glad to see you using your brain.

[hugh grant]

Is there any reason why you still refuse to acknowledge the 2 videos I just posted? They both clearly show Pacquiao being knocked-OUT (not down, but OUT!) !!! You carry on about his resume, but can you find any similar KTFO losses on the resumes of JMM or Floyd? Please post them if you can. Yes, resumes do matter. Please understand that Pacquiao was KNOCKED-OUT and left crawling and crying (yes, literally CRYING....watch the tapes) on the canvas. This is part of his resume whether or not you choose to face it.

No one is saying Pac was the best fighter back then, but neither was Floyd. So why shouldnt Pac lose, when he isnt the best? He is the best now, Floyd isnt, he dont fight so obviously cant be the best. Him being ko;ed twice when he was not trained properly and starving dont make him not the best of this era, so why should i acknowledge those vids? Cotto didnt do that to Pac, neither did Margarito or SSM. Please dont mention them again as it is not relevant to what this thread is about.

But it seems JMMs greatness is down to his performances against Pac shows how great people must consider Pac. When all is said and done that is his claim to fame and his quintissiential performances.

[Tony B.]

No one is saying Pac was the best fighter back then, but neither was Floyd. So why shouldnt Pac lose, when he isnt the best? He is the best now, Floyd isnt, he dont fight so obviously cant be the best. Him being ko;ed twice when he was not trained properly and starving dont make him not the best of this era, so why should i acknowledge those vids? Cotto didnt do that to Pac, neither did Margarito or SSM. Please dont mention them again as it is not relevant to what this thread is about.

But it seems JMMs greatness is down to his performances against Pac shows how great people must consider Pac. When all is said and done that is his claim to fame and his quintissiential performances.

You brought up resumes Mr. Hugh Grant, not me. The resume of a professional fighter represents the totality of his career accomplishments. You cannot cherry-pick from his best moments and simultaneously ignore his failures. Any honest observer must acknowlegde that Pac has been defeated decisively during the course of his career. He was not an un-trained kid when he lost his WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP to Singsurat! Get real. Marquez greatness is not based solely on his fights with Pacquiao. It is based on the totality of his career and the fact that his only decisive and undisputable loss came at the hands of Floyd Mayweather. How convenient it is to say "he was not trained properly and starving" to dismiss his losses. By that logic, I can excuse any loss any fighter ever had in the history of the sport....I can just as easily say that "Barrera had a steel plate put in his head before the first Pacquiao fight and was past his prime for the second, therefore Barrera is better!" or "De La Hoya didn't train properly for Pacquiao, therefore he is better" or "Cotto took a beating from Margaritos plaster hands and then had to starve himself to make a catch-weight against Pacquiao, therefore Cotto is better". I believe that Pacquiao defeated them fair and square, but you can clearly see how the circular reasoning can cut both ways. Resumes matter. Pacquiao has been KNOCKED-OUT decisively more than once. There is no hiding from this fact and it MUST be considered when judging him against the all-time greats. He also flopped around the canvas and literally cried and squealed when he was KTFO. The closest thing I've ever seen to that was De La Hoya against Hopkins and they will both be remembered for those displays.....

[BillyBoxing]

Why do so many people just assume that a person's opinion and critisism of Manny is because of jealousy or hate?

That is just bull**** you don't know most black fans, boxers or trainers so you shouldn't even make a statement like that. Ethnicity and race play an imeasurable factor IMO in how people feel about Manny. IMO its just that people don't like to see another person get undeserved praise and accolades no matter the race. People talked down and criticized Roy Jones, PBF, Naseem Hamed, Ricky Hatton and countless others. 98+% of the time ethnicity, race, jealousy or hate have nothing to do with it. Do some athletes get mad hell yes they do but its usually not at the fighter its at the media and fickle fans. Barry Bonds wasn't mad at Mark McGuire his issue was with how fake the media was. I feel its the same in this situation the media has made more out of something than it really is and many people still believe what they see and hear on TV has to be true and not form their own educated opinion.

We can agree or disagree.

Like I said, Manny Pacquiao might be overrated with all that "8 divisions champ"crap but he's a truly great fighter.

He's a career featherweight,and he could have been competitive as a featherweight in every era IMO.

Race is sometimes a big factor, not always.

If you think most pac fans are black folks it's your opinion, I personnaly think most of his haters are, it's pretty much obvious.

Remember Hopkins and his "Pac should fight an afro american" tirade??

Like I said, "jeremy lin effect", overrated by some media, underrated by haters...for the same reasons.

All those guys calling Pacquiao a cheat or a bum, a fraud, have an agenda.
So had Roy's haters, Hatton deserved bashing as a truly overrated fighter.

[4Corners]

We can agree or disagree.

Like I said, Manny Pacquiao might be overrated with all that "8 divisions champ"crap but he's a truly great fighter.

He's a career featherweight,and he could have been competitive as a featherweight in every era IMO.

Race is sometimes a big factor, not always.

If you think most pac fans are black folks it's your opinion, I personnaly think most of his haters are, it's pretty much obvious.

Remember Hopkins and his "Pac should fight an afro american" tirade??

Like I said, "jeremy lin effect", overrated by some media, underrated by haters...for the same reasons.

All those guys calling Pacquiao a cheat or a bum, a fraud, have an agenda.
So had Roy's haters, Hatton deserved bashing as a truly overrated fighter.

Any person that truly believes Floyd and Manny are not great fighters........is not a person worth listening to.

[4Corners]

You brought up resumes Mr. Hugh Grant, not me. The resume of a professional fighter represents the totality of his career accomplishments. You cannot cherry-pick from his best moments and simultaneously ignore his failures. Any honest observer must acknowlegde that Pac has been defeated decisively during the course of his career. He was not an un-trained kid when he lost his WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP to Singsurat! Get real. Marquez greatness is not based solely on his fights with Pacquiao. It is based on the totality of his career and the fact that his only decisive and undisputable loss came at the hands of Floyd Mayweather. How convenient it is to say "he was not trained properly and starving" to dismiss his losses. By that logic, I can excuse any loss any fighter ever had in the history of the sport....I can just as easily say that "Barrera had a steel plate put in his head before the first Pacquiao fight and was past his prime for the second, therefore Barrera is better!" or "De La Hoya didn't train properly for Pacquiao, therefore he is better" or "Cotto took a beating from Margaritos plaster hands and then had to starve himself to make a catch-weight against Pacquiao, therefore Cotto is better". I believe that Pacquiao defeated them fair and square, but you can clearly see how the circular reasoning can cut both ways. Resumes matter. Pacquiao has been KNOCKED-OUT decisively more than once. There is no hiding from this fact and it MUST be considered when judging him against the all-time greats. He also flopped around the canvas and literally cried and squealed when he was KTFO. The closest thing I've ever seen to that was De La Hoya against Hopkins and they will both be remembered for those displays.....

No one cares about HUGH GRANT. He loves to talk about the 8 divisions (7 if you're being honest with yourself) that Pac has won titles in, but then refuses to admit that Manny getting KO'd by Singsurat to lose his title was a legit loss. All the while, his win over Sasakul back then was a legit win.

I'll be the first man to admit that Henry Bruseles and Sharmba Mitchell were POINTLESS fights for Floyd, pointless. He should have just went straight for Gatti after Corley, and should have went for Zab Judah right away at 147 or someone like Luis Collazo for his first test at 147. Bruseles and Mitchell were pointless. Imagine Donaire fighting WV2 and Narvaez at 118.....pointless fights. I will also be the first to admit that Manny sure fought a lot of big fights against a guy that was coming off a really recent loss, that he waited a long a$$ time to give people rematches (Barrera and JMM), and that fighting Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, and even Marquez III when he did was pointless. He should have just went straight for Mosley in 09-10 when Shane was Top 10 P4P and coming off good wins, or someone like Berto as well. Oh well.

Both Manny and Floyd are great fighters, ATG's. Hopefully they end up fighting.

[Brother Jay]

Because hes got the best resume. Also because he beats Floyds opponents better than him and he cleaned out 147 just about.

LOL@best resume

Let's examine that.

Manny's first 40 fights were against bums. Plain and simple. He hadn't fought outside his small corner of southeast Asia.

Then Manny has 14 fights that are noteworthy.

They are against:

1 - Barrera
2 - JMM
3 - Morales
4 - Morales
5 - Morales
6 - Barrera
7 - JMM
8 - DLH
9 - Hatton
10 - Cotto
11 - Clottey
12 - Margarito
13 - Mosley
14 - JMM

Of those 14, he fought Barrera x2, Morales x3, JMM x3. He lost to Morales once when he had to submit blood without notice, and rematched Morales even when Morales got dominated by Raheem. Manny arguably lost to JMM3 times.

Take those wins away, and then you have to factor in that Pacquaio fought DLH at a mannyweight of 145lbs. He faced Hatton ONLY because Mayweather had knocked him out first, and then targeted Cotto ONLY AFTER Margarito had savagely beaten Miguel into bloody submission.

Clottey has never beaten a world champion. Manny was willing to face Margarito ONLY AFTER Mosley knocked him out, and after he was willing to face Mosley, a man that Roach admitted that they had been ducking, once Mayweather dominated him.

Lastly, JMM thoroughly outboxed Pacquiao in the last fight. It wasn't close. It wasn't competitive. JMM shut down Pacquiao's offense, and Pacquiao has no defense. After that match, Pacquiao's reputation took a huge hit and he was demoted on most lists. He knows JMM won, and that's why he's fighting Bradley.

Better resume? In what world? You confuse reputations with actual RANK ... which determines who is at the top and who is not. After fighting Diaz, Pacquiao had NO CARE FOR RANK. He's been fighting guys with big names and unimpressive rank.

In PACLAND, rank doesn't matter. Neither do championships obviously .. which is why Pacquiao doesn't mind competing for vacant titles to make a case for being an eight division titlist.

Manny Pacquiao's resume is HOLLOW. Its has the shell of an impressive career, but like an eggshell, it lacks substance passed his bouts with Barrera and Morales. His entire foray at WW has been a sham, and THAT'S where Manny's legacy found legs!

Fun Fact for Hugh Grant: Fighting boxers ranked 4th & 5th isn't the same as fighting boxers ranked 1st & 2nd. Keep that in mind when you're "weighing" Manny Pacquiao's many accomplishments. If you do that, you'll see for yourself that what he's done pales in comparison to elite fighters like Marquez and Mayweather.

Nice call, McGirt.

[Chex31]

LOL@best resume

Let's examine that.

Manny's first 40 fights were against bums. Plain and simple. He hadn't fought outside his small corner of southeast Asia.

Then Manny has 14 fights that are noteworthy.

They are against:

1 - Barrera
2 - JMM
3 - Morales
4 - Morales
5 - Morales
6 - Barrera
7 - JMM
8 - DLH
9 - Hatton
10 - Cotto
11 - Clottey
12 - Margarito
13 - Mosley
14 - JMM

Of those 14, he fought Barrera x2, Morales x3, JMM x3. He lost to Morales once when he had to submit blood without notice, and rematched Morales even when Morales got dominated by Raheem. Manny arguably lost to JMM3 times.

Take those wins away, and then you have to factor in that Pacquaio fought DLH at a mannyweight of 145lbs. He faced Hatton ONLY because Mayweather had knocked him out first, and then targeted Cotto ONLY AFTER Margarito had savagely beaten Miguel into bloody submission.

Clottey has never beaten a world champion. Manny was willing to face Margarito ONLY AFTER Mosley knocked him out, and after he was willing to face Mosley, a man that Roach admitted that they had been ducking, once Mayweather dominated him.

Lastly, JMM thoroughly outboxed Pacquiao in the last fight. It wasn't close. It wasn't competitive. JMM shut down Pacquiao's offense, and Pacquiao has no defense. After that match, Pacquiao's reputation took a huge hit and he was demoted on most lists. He knows JMM won, and that's why he's fighting Bradley.

Better resume? In what world? You confuse reputations with actual RANK ... which determines who is at the top and who is not. After fighting Diaz, Pacquiao had NO CARE FOR RANK. He's been fighting guys with big names and unimpressive rank.

In PACLAND, rank doesn't matter. Neither do championships obviously .. which is why Pacquiao doesn't mind competing for vacant titles to make a case for being an eight division titlist.

Manny Pacquiao's resume is HOLLOW. Its has the shell of an impressive career, but like an eggshell, it lacks substance passed his bouts with Barrera and Morales. His entire foray at WW has been a sham, and THAT'S where Manny's legacy found legs!

Fun Fact for Hugh Grant: Fighting boxers ranked 4th & 5th isn't the same as fighting boxers ranked 1st & 2nd. Keep that in mind when you're "weighing" Manny Pacquiao's many accomplishments. If you do that, you'll see for yourself that what he's done pales in comparison to elite fighters like Marquez and Mayweather.

Nice call, McGirt.

Great post, dude.