Who was the greatest Heavyweight Post- Ali era?

[-Deal With It-]

I suggest you go recheck your stats buddy. You are incorrect on almost every fricken thing you said.

Please sir, i implore you to make the proper corrections on any part of my comment that was incorrect.

I fully expect that by the time i return to this thread later on tonight, you will have done so.

[joseph5620]

Doesn't sound that much better than Sanders based on that rationale.

Shavers knocked out Ellis, Norton, Young, in one round. Badly hurt Ali, knocked down and badly hurt prime Holmes, and Lyle.

Sanders knocked out Wlad and NO other top fighters.


Don't be ridiculous.

[Mr. Invincible]

Not that you are worth the time but I'm at work killing some so here goes.

Wlad also has LESS KO's in title fights than Tyson.:

Tyson-title fight record:12-4 (10ko's)
Wladimir-title fight record:17-2 (14ko's)
(12 of Wlad's wins were against top ten opponents)
I'll let you do the math on that.

LESS KO's over HOF's/ATG's than Tyson.

Wlad can't beat the ones that are left because it would be manslaughter. (Holyfield & Toney)

WLAD'S OPPOSITION HAS LESS WINS OVER OTHER TOP TEN HEAVYWEIGHTS THAN TYSON'S OPPOSITION

I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove this incorrect. Don't have that kind of time. Plus, I'm sure you didn't actually check that to be fact as it would take a lot of research to validate.

Wlad has more losses to unranked opposition than Tyson, with a career that is 5 years shorter than Tyson's

Tyson has 3 less fights than Wladimir moron. And Tyson lost to a bum at his best. Mike lost to two unranked guys and so did Wladimir but Mikes was in his prime.

It took Tyson nearly 20 years and a blown out knee before he had his 1st loss to an unranked opponent.

Danny Williams was a solid fighter at the time and Tyson was knocked out by punches after gassing. Had little to do with a knee injury. Wlad is 35, we will have to see if Wlad is still champ at 38 like Tyson was in that fight.

Michael Spinks > Chris Byrd .

Based on what exactly? He may have been better at light heavyweight but he only had 5 fights at heavyweight and his wins were against an aging Holmes and a couple of bums.


So in closing, try answering my original question. Why such animosity for the Klitschko's sir?

[nomadman]

I agree, Holmes wasn't washed up, but he was coming off two losses in a row and was not at his best. Seeing as how Tyson beat him by bad ko I give him credit but when you really look at his record, he didn't have many title defenses and was beaten by a 40-1 underdog at his peak. His overall competition wasn't all that great either. To me , Wlad has not lost in his prime and has a lot more title defenses than Tyson already.

If you define prime as being at your physical peak then Wlad's already lost to Sanders and Brewster. Wlad hasn't been defeated since altering his style, but that's not quite the same thing IMO.

[nomadman]

Shavers knocked out Ellis, Norton, Young, in one round. Badly hurt Ali, knocked down and badly hurt prime Holmes, and Lyle.

Sanders knocked out Wlad and NO other top fighters.


Don't be ridiculous.

Don't be ridiculous yourself.

Beating a prime Wlad is better than any of Shavers's best wins. And like you said, he only hurt Ali and Holmes, he didn't finish them off. Nothing ATG about that.

[RichCCFC]

Larry Holmes or Lennox Lewis

[Mr. Invincible]

If you define prime as being at your physical peak then Wlad's already lost to Sanders and Brewster. Wlad hasn't been defeated since altering his style, but that's not quite the same thing IMO.

Prime in boxing to me is being at a fighters best style, best experience and best ability to use physical attributes. I consider Wlad in his prime now, which is at his best. Tyson obviously was at his best a lot earlier. I don't think a fighter is at their best based on physical prime at all. Vitali Klitschko and Hopkins are perfect current examples of that.

[nomadman]

Prime in boxing to me is being at a fighters best style, best experience and best ability to use physical attributes. I consider Wlad in his prime now, which is at his best. Tyson obviously was at his best a lot earlier. I don't think a fighter is at their best based on physical prime at all. Vitali Klitschko and Hopkins are perfect current examples of that.

Fair enough, if that's how you define it. I just think it's one of those words which is a little ambiguous and can mean different things to different people. I'd definitely say Wlad is at his most effective now, since he's learned to pace himself and maintain correct distance and the centre of the ring at all times. However, when I look at the younger Wlad I see a much more dynamic, fluid and aggressive fighter who would never have taken opponents like Rahman and Thompson into the later rounds, and would have KOed Iggy without any problem. But then I also can't see the older Wlad getting blitzed by Sanders and Brewster either.

[joseph5620]

Don't be ridiculous yourself.

Beating a prime Wlad is better than any of Shavers's best wins. And like you said, he only hurt Ali and Holmes, he didn't finish them off. Nothing ATG about that.

Nothing ATG about knocking out a fighter who's been knocked down 11 times and stopped 3 times. Jimmy Young had a much better chin than Wlad and Shavers had a better career than Sanders.




So yes, you are being ridiculous.

[nomadman]

Nothing ATG about knocking out a fighter who's been knocked down 11 times and stopped 3 times. Jimmy Young had a much better chin than Wlad and Shavers had a better career than Sanders.

First off, I'm not directly comparing Sanders to Shavers, so get that straight.

My main point of issue is your blasé dismissal of Sanders's power, based on "only" beating Wlad. Whatever you think of Wlad's chin he completely destroyed him worse than anyone, and is to date the only man to have rocked Vitali to the point that he was near to going down. If that isn't indicative of high level punching power then I don't know what is.

The reason I brought up Shavers in the first place is that I think both fighters share similarities, with Shavers having the better overall career and Sanders having the better single win. Aside from that, they both hurt and knocked down guys whom they lost to, Shavers knocking down Holmes and hurting a shot Ali, and Sanders badly rocking Vitali. They were both somewhat avoided in their time, and both have testimonies from fighters claiming that they were the hardest punchers they ever fought.

Yet Shavers is a legendary puncher and Sanders is a tubby golfer who got lucky, what? The gulf isn't nearly as wide as that.