Why Floyd is a better counter puncher than Marquez

[Mr.0pal]

Its very simple....JMM takes more risk than Floyd. JMM will get hit more, but is just as good. Floyd just looks better technically because he limits his risks, and usually comes out not bruised up. Its just different styles with similar ways of creating offense.

P.S. and for anyone to assume what JMM did to Pac, that Floyd makes easy work because of what Floyd did to JMM.....yes it is very possible that Floyd shuts out Pac, but, back to what i said....JMM TAKES MORE RISKS (when Pac starts swinging, so does JMM - hes NOT AFRAID TO TRADE), and has much success with Pac because his risk taking mixed with his precision.

He wasn't taking those risks against Pacquiao. I think he won the fight be he would have thrown more punches if he walks into the line of fire the way people imply. He only does that against brawling opponents who pressure him. Often even then it's not countering... he's leading.

[Mr.0pal]

You're an idiot, I said Floyd was the better counter puncher. However including a lead left hook in an example of him being a better counter-puncher is just plain dumb.

Adding the leaping hook was not a credit to Floyd as a counter puncher dufus.... it was a discredit to JMM as an example of what nullifies his counter abilities... same as the pull counter. You can bring these tools into the ring against JMM and his countering prowess is blunted. ANd if he could add a pull counter into his game he would not get countered as often.

[S IP U IR S xII]

He wasn't taking those risks against Pacquiao. I think he won the fight be he would have thrown more punches if he walks into the line of fire the way people imply. He only does that against brawling opponents who pressure him. Often even then it's not countering... he's leading.

Yes he did take risks. Look at his face after the fight. Sure he fought a much smarter fight than the first 2, but when Pac would close in to attack, JMM would take his chances by trying to get off first. When Pac got in, he would try and flurry, only to have JMM get the first shot off first more times that not. Even after Pac would start throwing....JMM would stay in there and try to get his shots in. Yes JMM was walking the dog, but in order for him to get those shots, he had to stand in front of the blades.

[New England]

How many times has JMM thrown a counter while going backwards? I've never seen him do it. Floyd does it on a regualr with check hooks.



When have you seen JMM throw a lead left hook and put himself in a position to avoid counters? Floyd does it on a regular basis with his leaping left hook. He jumps in and moves off at an angle to avoid counters.



When has JMM ever done a pull counter (which involves countering and then avoiding your opponents counter)? I'll be schocked if you find ONE moment where he does it. Floyd has done it enough times that you can make highlight videos on it (as has been done). How often does JMM simply hit and avoid getting countered all in one movement?




All it took was upper body movement, head movement, and footwork for Floyd to avoid being countered by JMM. If you're such a great counter puncher then there is nothing that a fighter can do to avoid your counter punches. Floyd was throwing lead punches all night and avoiding JMM's counters all night. JMM was throwing lead punches and getting countered all night.

Your only argument is that JMM throws more punches when he counters (which is a decision, not a skill). What good are those counters if you're not landing against certain styles? There is no type of style that Floyd can't counter. There IS certain styles that JMM can't counter as he himself said in the post fight interview that he had a hard time connecting on Floyd.

JMM also gets hit while he's trying to counter. Your counterpunching greatness is deminished in my book if your counter punching is getting countered, and if you're missing those counters altogether. Floyd on the other hand, avoids being countered after he counters and does not face a style that he can't counter.

You can find countering skills that Floyd has that JMM does not have, but you can't find any that JMM has that Floyd doesn't have. Yet he's a better counter puncher?

I'm not a JMM hater... I love watching him fight.... but I know better than to call him a superior counter puncher to Floyd.

aside from the speed and reflexes and skills and all of that, which are a part of another argument


dude

size
think about it

how can you throw a hook going backwards when you have to come forward to get to your opponent?

marquez is a FW come LW fighting lw's and now some ww's

floyd has been a WW for a long time and has never fought an outright larger opponent

if floyd fought larger guys you'd see his style change. he'd have to start coming forward//closing distance or run the risk of being out of range and outworked.

[Canelo Phresh]

The problem I had with your original post is the fact that you claimed that you're not as impressed with Floyd Jr becasue he has extreme physical gifts......but then went on to say that JMM is a better counterpuncherand one of the smartest boxer you have seen. Hasnt JMM intelligence helped him just as much as Floyds physical gifts.......

ur sig is classic freedom owned himself

[Chups]

I do not understand that statement. So when Floyd counter punches... it's not actually counter punching... it's using athletic ability to do what he wants?

LOL! Well if he counterpunches then he is counterpunching you silly. Floyd counterpunches and more+......he initates when an opponent is open, he stays defensive when being flurried, he adjusts his tactics to counter the opponents style. Prime Marquez does not (barely) do those things, when an attacker initiates, he attacks back almost instantly (counterpunching).


The best defensive fighter of this era is Floyd Mayweather but the best counterpuncher is JMM.......I leave it at that.

[COACH WEBB]

aside from the speed and reflexes and skills and all of that, which are a part of another argument


dude

size
think about it

how can you throw a hook going backwards when you have to come forward to get to your opponent?

marquez is a FW come LW fighting lw's and now some ww's

floyd has been a WW for a long time and has never fought an outright larger opponent

if floyd fought larger guys you'd see his style change. he'd have to start coming forward//closing distance or run the risk of being out of range and outworked.

Carlos Baldomir wasn't outright larger than him? Or how about when he went to JMW and fought Oscar?

[thatnickuh]

cry me a river *****
you're so persistent...i keep on ignoring you but still you like quoting my posts. i acknowledge you one last time because you're acting like a beggar.

I couldn't care less if you ever "acknowledge" me. What I said is the truth. You're obviously not too bright and on top of that, you're an ass. The nerve of you calling anyone a "moron" when you're the epitome.

what the hell are you talking about defense is part of counterpunching? where did you get that ****** analogy? counterpunching is an offense coming from a defensive stance. it's a sequence...defense first and then counterpunching (offense) after but they're different.

Wow, you get it but you don't get it. It's like you're trying to be obtuse or something. Yes, defense is part of being a good counter-puncher. While it is possible to land counter-punches while being hit, a fighter who can counter-punch without being hit is more skilled than one who gets hit while using his counters. You can't dismiss the role that defense plays in counter-punching.

case in point: jmm is always criticized for his defense because he gets hit a lot but his considered a premium counterpuncher. if defense is part of counterpunching then jmm should only be average. but that's not the case, in fact counterpunching is his best weapon eventhough his defense is leaky.

This is a rather simplistic arguement don't you think? You're trying to tell me that defense isn't part of counter-punching because some people say that Marquez's defense is leaky even though he's a good counter-puncher? This is why you should never ever ever question anyone else's intelligence. Marquez's defense is pretty good considering his style as a fighter. He gets hit when he stands there trading with guys which is only natural because when you throw combinations you leave yourself open to be hit. Marquez's reputation of being a good counter-puncher comes from his ability to trade with guys and land the better shots without getting hit as much. Mayweather is just clearly better at that.

you're just a fanboy who woships floyd like a god. your god should always be the best and if somebody says he's the second best you can't accept it and act all *****hurt. you're pathetic and dumb

Shows what you know, I haven't even agreed with the claim that Mayweather is the best counter-puncher of all time. I'm simply nmaking the argument that it's clear that he's better than Marquez. You can't even make an intelligent argument for Marquez being better other than "he throws more punches". You're a mental midget, you should be a lot more humble.

[PacKOtyson]

There's no argument here may>JMM

[FloydPacquiaoJr]

JMM is a better counterpuncher than Floyd

Floyd is a better defensive mover counter than JMM