How can the RING possibly justify ranking Cotto as the #1 Junior-Middleweight?

[fitefanSHO]

Then how does it work? Educate me. Who has more of a claim to the #1 spot based on what they've accomplished @ 154 than Bundrage?

The 2 paper titlists Cotto & Canelo?

At 154, I think the Ring Mag ratings are spot on.

The Junior Middleweight Championship is vacant, and the ABC belt holders are really nothing more than a list of contenders to a vacant throne. Linear means Bundrage could trace his claim to the title all the way back to guys like Oscar, Shane and Winky.

Applying the term, "the man who beat the man who beat the man", trace his claim back like that.

Or which Junior Middleweight Champion did he beat who can trace it back like that? Sounds to me like the 154 lb lineage is broken, and Bundrage is rated appropriately by Ring.

[ИATAS]

And that's some Ass backwards shit. Becoming #1 in a division without actually beating the #1 in the division.

Why? Floyd was retired at the time, or just came back and fought Marquez. Mosley lost to Cotto then beat Margarito. So I believe Mosley & Cotto were the top two prior. I'm going off memory so I may be off.

[Deal With It]

How did you work that out? The lineal line was broken in 1982 when Sugar Ray Leonard moved up to Middleweight. Even if you recognise Thomas Hearns as the next lineal champion having beaten Wilfred Benitez, as most boxing fans and The Ring did, the line is broken again by Hearns. The Ring did not recognise a light middleweight champion after that until Oscar De La Hoya, and that line does not lead to Cornelius Bundrage. Even if you take the WBC line, who recognised Duane Thomas as the light-middleweight champion having beaten John Mugabi, the line does not lead to Cornelius Bundrage. If you take the WBA line, who recognised Tadashi Mihara as champion having beaten Rocky Fratto, the line does not lead to Cornelius Bundrage.

The only line that leads to Cornelius Bundrage is the IBF line, a line that is most certainly not lineal, considering the many occasions the line is broken and replaced by baffling vacancy bouts. Not that I value the WBC or the WBA lines any higher.

Cotto is recognised by The Ring as the number one contender because he beat Yuri Foreman, who beat Daniel Santos, who was generally considered to be the best 154 pound fighter in a weak and somewhat fractured division.

I really don't see your point, at all.

The lineage doesn't just vanish and no longer exist when a guy moves up or vacates, it gets passed on to the next in line. And it's not about the lineage of one single alphabet title.

I'm following the lineage since Winky Wright, the last RING champion vacated.

When Winky moved to middleweight, the lineage goes to the next line which was Ouma.

Ouma got beat by Karmazin.

Karmazin got beat by Spinks.

Spinks got beat by Phillips.

Phillips got beat by Williams.

Williams moved to Middleweight and vacated

Phillips was next in line, but he retired.

Spinks was ranked just below Phillips which means lineage goes Spinks

Spinks gets beat by Bundrage.

Bundrage holds the lineage.

Clear enough now?

[Bushbaby]

Why? Floyd was retired at the time, or just came back and fought Marquez. Mosley lost to Cotto then beat Margarito. So I believe Mosley & Cotto were the top two prior. I'm going off memory so I may be off.

If I'm not mistaken, Floyd & Pacman were 1 & 2 & Mosley was #3 even though he beat Margarito. The Floyd was #1 after he beat Mosley & Pacman got the 1 spot after Floyd left.

[DoktorSleepless]

I'm honestly more confused why Angulo is ranked so high. His best win is against Joel Julio, who Dzinziruk had already beaten. I guess they could rank him based on the perception that he would beat everyone else, but that would be a weird thing to do.

Lara (coming off a loss and a draw)

Are you for real? Did you even watch his last fight or are you just look at boxrec and pretend you know what you're talking about? Ring made a whole deal of acknowledging that Lara was robbed again Paul Williams and rewarded him accordingly.

[Brother Jay]

Cornelius Bundrage is the current lineal champ @ 154 and yet he's ranked #7 by the RING? WTF?

Bundrage is the only guy in the division outside of Canelo who's last victory was over a top 10 ranked opponent.

How does the RING justify putting non-title holders like Molina, Angulo, Lara (coming off a loss and a draw) and Vanes over the lineal champ of the division? And placing Cotto @ #1 when his only wins in the division are over a paper titlist with no successful defenses, and a old shot fighter who hadn't won a meaningful fight in the division in 6 YEARS.

Anybody here agree with the RING's Junior-Middleweight rankings? Or am i just nutts for thinking the guy who holds the lineage in the division, should be the #1 guy in the division?

I have not seen those rankings as I stopped reading Ring Magazine many years ago.

Keep in mind that the magazine is owned by Golden Boy, which automatically creates a conflict of interests. Just like when Arum had Pacquiao fight Cotto, Clottey and Margarito it was something of a conflict of interests.

That's why I advocate REAL FANS to do some investigating of their own when determining who is truly ranked what. The greed and corruption in boxing had Margarito competing for a vacant jrMW title DURING the period in which he was banned! That same corruption had Cotto competing for a vacant WW title IMMEDIATELY after his brutal loss to Margarito! Surely someone ranked 4th or better should have deserved the option to procure that vacant belt. Instead it stayed IN-HOUSE at Top rank!

I applaud you for writing this post. As I said, I am not intimately aware of the rankings in which you speak of, but the fact that you actually took the time to investigate instead of taking someone else's word for it and came to this conclusion on your own is worthy of respect. If nothing else you've done on this site is worthy of praise, this sure was.

I wish more fans would step up their game and do the same.

If they did, they would ask "how is Pacquiao rated the #1 anything for fighting a bunch of 5th ranked fighters and one 4th ranked fighter?"

They would have to ask themselves why a win over a 5th ranked fighter is counted as if it were a win over a top boxer.

They'd also have to ask themselves how Cotto is supposedly an ATG and a future HOF when in his entire career he's won ONLY one noteworthy fight against Shane Mosley ... and this was back when Mosley was coming off a string of losses and a couple of wins over Vargas. Every title that Cotto held before his current jrMW title was a vacant title. So how is he such a star?

They'd also have to ask why Sergio Martinez is being called the P4P#1 when in 51 fights he's only beaten two guys worth mentioning ... and at the time when he faced them they were either damaged or exposed.

Pavlik was demoralized by BHOP and contemplated retirement. Williams had been exposed for being susceptible to an overhand left by Quintana. Martinez used it in his first fight but couldn't close the show. Lara showed that Williams had not taken any steps to remedy that flaw. Sergio is nothing special. He wasn't the first to beat Williams. In fact Williams beat him the first time. Sergio is just a pug who is at the end of his career looking for a huge payday. He feels that he's earned it against Floyd or Manny even though they are 2 divisions below where he's currently competing.

It just takes some time and some willingness to look at facts and figures to find the truth of the matter.

Keep it up, dude!

[jrosales13]

Bundrage took the linear crown from Spinks, who became the lineal champ after Paul Williams vacated his title that he won from Verno Phillips (lineal champ) and moved up to Middleweight.

Phillips then retired, next in line to claim the lineage was Spinks.


This is all according to the RINGs own rankings.

There is no lineal champion at 154. There hasn't been a lineal champion at 154 since Winky Wright.

Lineage doesn't go to the next in line. That's not how it works.

[RubenSonny]

The lineage doesn't just vanish and no longer exist when a guy moves up or vacates, it gets passed on to the next in line. And it's not about the lineage of one single alphabet title.

Incorrect, Once a champ relinquishes the title it is left vacant, if the number 1 and 2 contenders face off the winner has the claim of lineal champion.

[jrosales13]

They'd also have to ask themselves how Cotto is supposedly an ATG and a future HOF when in his entire career he's won ONLY one noteworthy fight against Shane Mosley ... and this was back when Mosley was coming off a string of losses and a couple of wins over Vargas. Every title that Cotto held before his current jrMW title was a vacant title. So how is he such a star?

They'd also have to ask why Sergio Martinez is being called the P4P#1 when in 51 fights he's only beaten two guys worth mentioning ... and at the time when he faced them they were either damaged or exposed.

Mosley wasn't coming off a string of losses. He was coming off a string of wins.

And, because P4P is mythical opinion based ranking. You can put Roman Gonzalez as P4P #1 and it wouldn't matter. Because, it's make believe.

[Deal With It]

There is no lineal champion at 154. There hasn't been a lineal champion at 154 since Winky Wright.

Lineage doesn't go to the next in line. That's not how it works.

Incorrect, Once a champ relinquishes the title it is left vacant, if the number 1 and 2 contenders face off the winner has the claim of lineal champion.

You guys are talking about the RING title.

The RING's title =/= lineal title

Although most of the time the ring and lineal goes hand and hand.

Lineage doesn't disapear because the #1 & #2 don't fight.