Where do YOU rate the Klitschkos?

[Steak]

Kirk Johnson WAS too heavy, by about 10-15 lbs from his normal. Corrie Sanders was just about right, he was 2 lbs heavier for Vitaly than for Wladimir, and he was also around the same for Rahman. Roughly about 5-7 lbs more for champions than normal. And you have to take Klitschko's size into it as well. He was about 25 lbs heavier just 2 fights after VK.

Arreola was at his lightest by quite a bit, for Klitschko in 7 fights, the 3 before and the 3 after Klitschko, were sizeably heavier. As for Solis you are, again, quite wrong. He was about between 25-30 lbs lighter for Klitschko than for most of his other fights.

The BoxingScene news reports were FULL of stories about how seriously he was training, and HOW MUCH WEIGHT he was taking off.......I don't know how old YOU are, but I'm sure you are younger than I and if YOU can't remember these very recent reports, why should you expect me to be able to.

LOOK IT UP FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE. why expect others to do your work for you.

Sanders weighed 235lbs against Vitali, and 225lbs against Wladimir. Sanders was also gassed by the third round and was throwing punches with his arms flapping at his sides against Vitali. He was clearly in much better fighting shape for Wladimir than he was against Vitali.

And Solis was in decent shape for him, but in reality he still was far from his best weight.

You cant actualyl think that adding fat makes you a better fighter. Thats ludicrous.

[cupocity303]

You said Joe Frazier's only great win was Ali 1. That's so completely wrong that you really have no credibility discussing Joe Frazier.

As opposed to you running through Wlad's entire resume and disparaging every opponent he has ever faced, won or lost. Pot calling the kettle black?

By the way, I'm pretty sure I didn't exactly say that and you have taken it out of context. A pretty basic trick to continue a simpleton Ad Hominen debate.

Have you ever heard of Jimmy Ellis or Oscar Bonavena or Jerry Quarry or Buster Mathis? That's just to start

Let me guess, you want me to acknowledge their status as great opponents based on their record? ATG opponents compared to the bums/Never-Was'/Has-Been's that you like to call todays fighters, to make your point?

You try to come across as smarter than everyone else when you are saying moronic things. Saying stuff like "if it makes you feel better" and "I gave my take" and "I am done with you" doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. You still haven't backup up the dumb things you've said, if you know what you are talking about back it up.

I have. I could care less if you're calling it dumb and not accept my answer because after all, who are you?

[cupocity303]

Notice how he's back tracking on his words now after failing to explain how "frazier was a beast on the inside". I get the feeling he doesn't even know what inside fighting is.

If back tracking means explaining the context of my opinion, in a lengthy manner, other than running around in circles on the wording of, "Beast on the inside". Then yes, I have back tracked.

Go high five each other in the History section now.

[bojangles1987]

As opposed to you running through Wlad's entire resume and disparaging every opponent he has ever faced, won or lost. Pot calling the kettle black?

By the way, I'm pretty sure I didn't exactly say that and you have taken it out of context. A pretty basic trick to continue a simpleton Ad Hominen debate.



Let me guess, you want me to acknowledge their status as great opponents based on their record? ATG opponents compared to the bums/Never-Was'/Has-Been's that you like to call todays fighters, to make your point?






I have. I could care less if you're calling it dumb and not accept my answer because after all, who are you?

Your exact words in the Frazier vs. Wlad thread were "Frazier had one great win against a past prime Ali." In the link you put in this thread to that post, it says exactly that. So yes, you said exactly that. I do not disparage every opponent Wlad has faced, and never did, so you are doing EXACTLY what you just falsely accused me of doing.

The only time I ever talk bad about Wlad's opponents is when people compare them to better fighters, such as you comparing any of Wlad's opponents to Joe Frazier, when none of them fight like Joe Frazier.

You seem to have a real problem with people who disagree with your dumb opinions, since in the Frazier vs. Wlad thread you decided to bring people's family into the thread rather than make any actual argument for what you said, and are not bothering to back it up here either.

[Vadrigar.]

If back tracking means explaining the context of my opinion, in a lengthy manner, other than running around in circles on the wording of, "Beast on the inside". Then yes, I have back tracked.

Go high five each other in the History section now.

You haven't explained much other than contradicting your original statement. So yeah, you back tracked. Can't have your cake and eat it, sorry.

Your original statement has nothing to do with the history section. Posting irrelevancies isn't bolstering anything you say.

[nomadman]

Kirk Johnson WAS too heavy, by about 10-15 lbs from his normal. Corrie Sanders was just about right, he was 2 lbs heavier for Vitaly than for Wladimir, and he was also around the same for Rahman. Roughly about 5-7 lbs more for champions than normal. And you have to take Klitschko's size into it as well. He was about 25 lbs heavier just 2 fights after VK.

Arreola was at his lightest by quite a bit, for Klitschko in 7 fights, the 3 before and the 3 after Klitschko, were sizeably heavier. As for Solis you are, again, quite wrong. He was about between 25-30 lbs lighter for Klitschko than for most of his other fights.

The BoxingScene news reports were FULL of stories about how seriously he was training, and HOW MUCH WEIGHT he was taking off.......I don't know how old YOU are, but I'm sure you are younger than I and if YOU can't remember these very recent reports, why should you expect me to be able to.

LOOK IT UP FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE. why expect others to do your work for you.

I'm well aware of their weights at fight time. Point is, 25-30lb off a fatass still makes one a fatass, just a slightly lighter one. Solis was up in the 270s at one point, which is morbidly obese considering he's only, what, six foot one? Arreola was also up there. When they fought Vitali they were still far off their ideal weight, and carrying a lot of loose flesh. Sanders wasn't too bad, weight wise, but he was clearly undertrained and was gassed after three rounds. Three rounds! Kirk Johnson... well, you already admit he was overweight, as did the commentators at the time, one of whom (Merchant I think) referred to the KO as "harpooning the whale".

I never said these opponents were at their heaviest when they fought Vit. But weren't you mentioning something about fighters packing on weight to fight him, in order to withstand the blows better? Why then did they drop the weight if they didn't think it would benefit them?

[RubenSonny]

Notice how he's back tracking on his words now after failing to explain how "frazier was a beast on the inside". I get the feeling he doesn't even know what inside fighting is.

Yup we're in agreement, typical dog-ate-my-homework excuse.

[JAB5239]

Joseph Benedetti, YOU are the worst liar and hypocrite I've ever seen on boxingscene.

You always cast the first stone, Joseph Benedetti. You constantly troll my threads and posts looking for trouble, as you did yesterday. Your hatred of the Klitschkos has sent you off the deep end ever since Wlad beat Haye.

Lmao!! Look at you, still trolling.

You delete posts in the history section that state opinions you don't agree with. Then you accuse me of being intolerant of those who don't agree with me.

Talk about being a hypocrite!

I disagree with EVERYONE in the history section about different things yet their posts still remain. The reason: Because they aren't trolls who cannot handle a difference of opinion. You and your ilk cannot handle differences of opinion and have a civil conversation and you're known trolls. Everyone is welcome to post there, but known trolls only get one chance and they're gone. You shouldn't ever bother posting there because 1. You don't know squat about the history of the sport. And 2. Because you're known as the biggest trouble maker on this site, a racist and a religious bigot. 3. Because you cannot handle differences of opinions and become disgruntled when the facts are pointed out and you have no answers.

Now you go have yourself a nice day.

[RubenSonny]

I disagree with EVERYONE in the history section about different things yet their posts still remain. The reason: Because they aren't trolls who cannot handle a difference of opinion. You and your ilk cannot handle differences of opinion and have a civil conversation and you're known trolls. Everyone is welcome to post there, but known trolls only get one chance and they're gone. You shouldn't ever bother posting there because 1. You don't know squat about the history of the sport. And 2. Because you're known as the biggest trouble maker on this site, a racist and a religious bigot. 3. Because you cannot handle differences of opinions and become disgruntled when the facts are pointed out and you have no answers.

Now you go have yourself a nice day.

One of the biggest myths on the site is that everyone in the History section agrees on everything.

[cupocity303]

Your exact words in the Frazier vs. Wlad thread were "Frazier had one great win against a past prime Ali."

In the context of the question of that thread. Which asked, who would win between Frazier and W.Klitschko. I expended on that by saying that stylistically, Wlad has faced and beaten far more opponents who were close to Frazier's style and physique (5'11) than Frazier has anybody close to Wlad's style and size. Hence, Ali being his biggest win and the closest thing to W. Klitschko in terms of having a jab and ability to keep opponents away from him.

I expended on that comment again by saying that even though he did beat Ali, a guy who traditionally uses a Jab, lots of movement, Frazier didn't face Cassius Clay. He faced the guy who started using the Rope-A-Dope, absorbing punishment and firing back with flurries. And even though a victory over Ali may look good on his resume, it doesn't make a case for him winning against a prime Wlad Klitschko, who would never lay back on the ropes and allow Frazier to pound him. A prime Klitschko who even if you managed to get to him on the inside, would grab you and lean all of his 250lb frame on your 5'11 body, further wearing Frazier out.

Therefore in conclusion, 85% of the fight would be fought on Wlad's territory, from the outside, with Joe taking jabs and straight rights, with only 15% of the time, Smoking Joe managing to get past the Jab, only to get clinched on the inside, as previously mentioned.

The only time I ever talk bad about Wlad's opponents is when people compare them to better fighters, such as you comparing any of Wlad's opponents to Joe Frazier, when none of them fight like Joe Frazier.

The only time, meaning ALL the time. That's your whole argument. For everything I have said above, your comeback would be along the lines of, "Yeah all of Wlad's 56 victories were against opponents inferior to the opponents of Smoking Joe, plus he lost to three bums".

In other words, hands off the opponents from Fighters past. Make your point, but Joe's opponents are off limits. Therefore handicapping anybody from trying to even make an argument against the status quo logic regarding past fighters.

A dishonest approach considering that's all most of you ever do when the DOMINANT FASHION IN WHICH WLAD OR VITALI ARE DISPOSING THEIR OPPONENTS, is discussed. I.E. Yeah they're dominating but who are they beating, nobodies.

You seem to have a real problem with people who disagree with your dumb opinions, since in the Frazier vs. Wlad thread you decided to bring people's family into the thread rather than make any actual argument for what you said, and are not bothering to back it up here either.

Not to waste my time repeating, let me refer you back to this post, it still stands: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...3&postcount=85

I didn't start the personal attacks, the Pink font troll did.