why all of a sudden is groves the underdog????explain.

[PRINCE O' PROSE]

And I don't even rate DeGale's long-term prospects. I only think he'll win a paper-title and maybe rule 168 for years if 168 goes back to its former weak state.

And by "rule", I mean possibly hold a title with so-so defences for a long time, maybe unify along the way. But that's at the most. He needs to hope that Andre Ward moves up to 175 after the next couple years, because Ward would beat the crap out of him at any point in the future; Dre is basically everything DeGale wants to be in terms of craft.




I think people were reading a little too much into Groves stopping Adamu a year ago; Adamu is typical of Accrans on this level, ie. tough, but deeply limited. Froch came on a long way since facing Adamu at a similarly early point in his development as a pro, a point that Groves hasn't moved beyond yet, so a comparison of their respective performances against that common opponent isn't suggestive of a whole lot re. Groves' chances with DeGale.

Paul Smith is hardly world-class, but he's arguably the best guy either Groves or DeGale has faced. You have to be very decent to beat him in the manner that DeGale did.

DeGale's just more patient, more organized, more fluid and more rounded than Groves. George hits harder, but it's hard to see how his most hurtful mid-range stuff will connect while DeGale is outmoving and outjabbing him to set up his power-punches.

[IronDanHamza]

I hate how everyone has jumped on the DeGale bandwagon. Ive said he'll destroy Groves from the start.

Same.

I also felt DeGale beat Groves in the am's anyway.

[PRINCE O' PROSE]

Hence the only reason Murray vs Mitchell is only just happening.... It's win win for Warren and whichever fighter he deems the better prospect the morning he wake from his kingsize bed I guarantee you will be the victor (not entirely legitimately). Man is a wheeler dealer, and Smith (I feel) was 'informed' to not under any circumstances win or even make DeGale look bad, Smith, up until that point had never fought so poorly.

Smith lacked lustre against Quigley and Dodson before that, and DeGale is much better than either.


I'm not saying that there isn't a certain timeliness about when these fights get made, but I have doubt in a full-on conspiracy on the level you're suggesting, guys being told to take a dive etc. Promoters will time a matchup and even slant other factors (such as the judging, officiating) in one guy's favor, but they often miscalculate on these things and the guy they planned on getting the win gets stopped.


Warren obviously believed strongly that DeGale was a different class to Smith, and he was correct.


Even promoters take educated risks sometimes. They have to.


Sometimes they even take uneducated risks (see Prescott-Khan, Mitchell-Estrada).

[J.R]

Smith lacked lustre against Quigley and Dodson before that, and DeGale is much better than either.


I'm not saying that there isn't a certain timeliness about when these fights get made, but I have doubt in a full-on conspiracy on the level you're suggesting, guys being told to take a dive etc. Promoters will time a matchup and even slant other factors (such as the judging, officiating) in one guy's favor, but they often miscalculate on these things and the guy they planned on getting the win gets stopped.


Warren obviously believed strongly that DeGale was a different class to Smith, and he was correct.


Even promoters take educated risks sometimes. They have to.


Sometimes they even take uneducated risks (see Prescott-Khan, Mitchell-Estrada).

Agreed, I wouldn't like to say 'full on conspiracy' but there had to be something going on there below the radar, the fight in Smith was just way to weak. Maybe, just maybe DeGale was good enough to legitimately emphatically beat Smith, and Warren knew it, who knows.

[PRINCE O' PROSE]

I mean, Adamu looked pretty bad in edging by Carl Dilks, a guy DeGale blew away. But none of these triangulations really speak much to how this fight will go down.


Ofc, the bookmakers' odds have a lot to do with how smoothly DeGale navigated Smith and the life and death manner of Groves' win over Anderson.


But if you just look at what each guy does in there, it tells you something.

Looking exciting and spectacular had glossed over Groves' flaws to a certain degree, but I think even his best performances have lacked structure and have shown him to be a quite one-dimensional fighter with not the coolest of heads and relatively few wrinkles to his game. In the corner, Adam Booth doesn't have much on-point, practical advice for him; the look of confusion on Groves' face while being berated for "slugging with a slugger" between rounds of his fight with Anderson was quite amusing, although I felt for him in that situation. In his favor, Groves has demonstrated a level of fighting heart that DeGale hasn't needed to show yet.

DeGale is more defensively sound, more consistent with the jab, more fleetfooted/smartfooted (yeah, I made up a word), more rounded and a lot more patient and guilesome. And it's hard to see how Groves can beat him style-wise. This is why I favor DeGale clearly. He has some points to prove in certain intangible areas, but he's emerging as a quite crafty fighter with potential to be a reasonable achiever at world level in the future.


I think a lot of people want this to be a highly competetive, dramatic, back and forth encounter in the Eubank-Benn mould, but I imagine DeGale controlling Groves and systematically breaking him down for as long as it takes to get him out of there. And that feeling of a predictable, fairly one-sided outcome is why I decided against making the trip down to see it in person.

[Nothingman]

im on about why everyone now thinks degale will win, a year ago, it would have been the otherway round.

What has degale done, and groves not done to have such a sway in opinions.

1 weeks a long time in politics, and boxing forums as well.

DeGale has beaten everyone hes fought with ease whereas Groves was hurt and put down by Kenny Anderson who took the fight on 2 weeks notice

[DUCK FACE]

I am not sure if Dwyer is losing it but he says Degale (right now) beats Bute.. now i don't rate Bute that much but i think that's pushing it. Either way Degale wins for me this Saturday.. i don't see a KO though.. Degale doesn't seem to have great power.. a ref/corner stoppage is possible i guess.

[PRINCE O' PROSE]

I am not sure if Dwyer is losing it but he says Degale (right now) beats Bute.. now i don't rate Bute that much but i think that's pushing it. Either way Degale wins for me this Saturday.. i don't see a KO though.. Degale doesn't seem to have great power.. a ref/corner stoppage is possible i guess.

That's how I see it happening, accumulation. As long as DeGale is respectful and waits until softening Groves up properly before pushing for the stoppage, he won't open himself up to the threat of being caught by something big.

The only way I see DeGale losing is by complacency, really.



Dwyer makes some very speculative reaches in his videos; he also thinks Solomon beats Mayweather as of this moment.

Bute, Froch and Ward would possibly all have moved up in weight by the time DeGale could be considered a legit rival to any of them, though.

[haverespect]

im on about why everyone now thinks degale will win, a year ago, it would have been the otherway round.

What has degale done, and groves not done to have such a sway in opinions.

1 weeks a long time in politics, and boxing forums as well.

He blew Carl Dilks away and schooled a good fighter in Paul Smith , Degale has skills and looks a class act in the ring. Groves can **** but is chinny as hell , nearly got knocked out by two bums. Thats why degale is favourite

[haverespect]

Hence the only reason Murray vs Mitchell is only just happening.... It's win win for Warren and whichever fighter he deems the better prospect the morning he wake from his kingsize bed I guarantee you will be the victor (not entirely legitimately). Man is a wheeler dealer, and Smith (I feel) was 'informed' to not under any circumstances win or even make DeGale look bad, Smith, up until that point had never fought so poorly.

Thats nonsense Locke , Smith tried his hardest , what evidence do you have of this?