How to beat the Klitchkos!!!

[hweightblogger]

Try again. Chambers did that.

In fact Chambers did everything from legal to illegal:

• Lifting Wlad and throwing him on the floor (this illegal uplifting possibly spared Chambers an early KO)
• Escaping out of the clinch sideways and go to the body from behind
• Out-speeding Wlad
• Punching Wlad's left arm (while Wlad was jabbing him)
• Jumping up to punch Wlad
• Initiating the clinch
• Ducking the jab, moving sideways and punching back
• Punching while Klitschko was clinching him
• Rabbit punching while Klitschko was clinching him
• Clinching Klitschko and rotate him
• Going to the body
• Going forward
• Going backward
• Leaning on the ropes
• Standing in the middle of the ring
• Getting an additional breather during a glove change
• Attacking
• Running

and Chambers was losing every round.

[hweightblogger]

Head movement is an ancient and obsolete tactic??? Crimeney jicket!!!

Against Wlad head movement won't help you.

This is especially evident as neither Corrie, nor Ross nor Brewster won by head movement.

At superheavyweight head movement may actually be dangerous.

[nomadman]

Against Wlad head movement won't help you.

This is especially evident as neither Corrie, nor Ross nor Brewster won by head movement.

At superheavyweight head movement may actually be dangerous.

Byrd in their first fight probably had the best head movement of any of Wlad's opponents, and survived till the end. Had he possessed more punching power and size he may have done a lot better than survive. But the point was that he did survive, and that was mostly down to his elusiveness and defensive prowess. So it most certainly did help him by keeping him in the fight (absorbing more punishment that he would have had he been KO'ed early, probably, but he kept himself in the fight nonetheless). Peter in their second fight used a lot of head movement for the first few rounds and managed to slip a fair few of Wlad's punches whilst landing a few good ones of his own. A combination of lack of stamina, speed as well as getting hurt early by Wlad put a stop to that, but his head movement was definitely helping him there. Ibragimov if I recall correctly also used a lot of head and upper body movement and again he survived till the end. In all the above cases, their head movement didn't directly contribute to their losses and in Ibragimov's and Byrd's cases helped them to survive the distance. Did it help them to win the fights? No. But then it didn't hurt their chances any, either.

[hweightblogger]

Byrd in their first fight probably had the best head movement of any of Wlad's opponents, and survived till the end.

1) Barely. He was knocked down. TWICE.
2) To describe Byrd's bendology as "head movement" is an understatement
3) That is maybe applicable to the pre-Manny Wlad.
4) "Surviving Wlad" is not the topic. "Beating" Wlad is. Didn't help Byrd a bit (120-106, 119-107, 118-108)

Had he possessed more punching power and size he may have done a lot better than survive.

Byrd is taller, reachier and heavier than Joe Frazier and has a higher KOratio (in real heavyweight fights 200x2) than Frazier. If it was good enough for the Golden Age, it should be good enough for the Klitschko era.

Peter in their second fight used a lot of head movement for the first few rounds and managed to slip a fair few of Wlad's punches whilst landing a few good ones of his own. A combination of lack of stamina, speed as well as getting hurt early by Wlad put a stop to that, but his head movement was definitely helping him there.

You understate his defeat. Though his best head movement ever (he emulated Frazier's Ping Pong technique) he received his most brutal beating ("Ping Pong meets King Kong"). More brutal than their first encounter where he didn't move his head at all.

Ibragimov if I recall correctly also used a lot of head and upper body movement and again he survived till the end.

1) Ibragimov is a southpaw. As is Corrie (loss), Tony Thompson (late KO), Chris Byrd (dec). Their STANCE is the common denominator of Wlad's difficulty to KO them. That's why Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis ducked all southpaws.

2) Ibragimov's main trick was not the head movement but the extreme leaning back. One of the most interesting fights ever because unlike the usual boxing match (which is a battle of fists) it was a battle of extremely good defenses. Every real box fan has enjoyed that fight. However, that's offtopic.

[nomadman]

1) Barely. He was knocked down. TWICE.
2) To describe Byrd's bendology as "head movement" is an understatement
3) That is maybe applicable to the pre-Manny Wlad.
4) "Surviving Wlad" is not the topic. "Beating" Wlad is. Didn't help Byrd a bit (120-106, 119-107, 118-108)

I acknowledged that. My point was it kept him in the fight. So long as you're in the fight there's a chance, however small, to win it.

You understate his defeat. Though his best head movement ever (he emulated Frazier's Ping Pong technique) he received his most brutal beating ("Ping Pong meets King Kong"). More brutal than their first encounter where he didn't move his head at all.

Was his beating directly attributed to his using head movement, or simply fighting a much better version of Wlad? I mean did he duck into one of Wlad's punches or get caught by a punch he didn't see coming as a result of bending away from another shot? You said that head movement can be actively dangerous against Wlad. What examples do you have to back that argument up?

1) Ibragimov is a southpaw. As is Corrie (loss), Tony Thompson (late KO), Chris Byrd (dec). Their STANCE is the common denominator of Wlad's difficulty to KO them. That's why Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis ducked all southpaws.

2) Ibragimov's main trick was not the head movement but the extreme leaning back.

I'll take your word for it. I haven't seen that fight since the first time it aired, and don't really intend to. But he still managed to avoid the worst of Wlad's punches, so that's got to count for something. Like I said above, so long as you're still in the fight you have a chance.

[sdcluser]

How do you do what strategy would you use?

Boxer with any of the top 15 HW from the past or just
Resurrect slightly pass prime Lennox Lewis?
Got time machine or any HW who is remotely fit?

[hweightblogger]

I acknowledged that. My point was it kept him in the fight. So long as you're in the fight there's a chance, however small, to win it.

Well, did you ever see a fight against Wlad where the chances grew the longer the fight went on?

Was his beating directly attributed to his using head movement, or simply fighting a much better version of Wlad? I mean did he duck into one of Wlad's punches or get caught by a punch he didn't see coming as a result of bending away from another shot?

Well, in the first fight he KDed Wlad 3 times. In the second fight he received his first and most brutal canvas KO.

You said that head movement can be actively dangerous against Wlad. What examples do you have to back that argument up?

There is the general rule that Wlad hits your head whatever you do. When you now actively move your head you increase your chances to move TOWARDS Wlad's fist.

You see Wlad's fist is already devastating when you move AWAY from it. But accidentally moving towards it is suicide.

ADDITIONALLY escape artists like Byrd or Calvin Brock (who was such an extremely good escaper that you barely find an example where he is cleanly head hit in his fights) tend to try to move away their heads instinctively when the hypnotic jab comes and then get hit by Wlad's jab-right combo (like Byrd or Brock).

I'll take your word for it. I haven't seen that fight since the first time it aired, and don't really intend to. But he still managed to avoid the worst of Wlad's punches, so that's got to count for something. Like I said above, so long as you're still in the fight you have a chance.

For example watch Wlad vs Moli. I definitely have the feeling had Moli (259 lbs, 29-2) been a worse head mover and had instead attacked and run more he would have survived more than 1 round.

The problem against Wlad is that Wlad is the best KOer the world has ever witnessed. He leads or is at the top of nearly every KO statistic imaginable:

• previously unKOed KOs
• KOed southpaws
• world title KOs
• heaviest KOs
• Number of KOs in early rounds (1-3)
• Weight of opponents in early rounds
• Number of KOs when out-weighed
• KOs in later rounds
• non-bummy KOs
• KO streaks
• world title KO streaks
• unbeaten KOs
• Rounds needed between KOs
• ...

Whatever you can come up with Wlad is leading or at the top. A better KOer the world has not seen.

And so far he had ONLY 3 (inconclusive) losses in 58 superheavyweight fights. Only Brian Nielsen has a better WinFight ratio. Wlad is a phenomenon.

Now, the WORST thing that you can do is believe that his RoCoLa losses are some kind of a blueprint how to beat him. The worst thing you can do is to believe the nonsense that Wlad has a glass jaw and then go after the chin. This will not work. Instead I saw Wlad hurt by a body punch against Ibragimov.

In my view the BEST BEST BEST way how to beat Wlad is to stink'n'run (= basically how Muhammad Ali won all his fights) like Eddie Chambers did: Eddie prevented an early KO by lifting Wlad up. And prevented a later KO by changing his glove.

Wlad is big (= locomoting slower than Haye) AND always (at least until Sam Peter II) looks for the perfect position before engaging. Thus Haye should run left and right and then suddenly attack. Or should hold and then rabbit punch. This is Haye's best bet. And I think this is what Haye will try to do.

However, Wlad (vs Sam Peter II) showed far greater will to engage and it was Peter who had to initiate most of the clinches. Thus not even this tactic may help.

Additionally so far I am unimpressed by Haye's performances. He was tagged at near will by Ruiz.

The only real danger for Wlad would be Prime Vitali Klitschko and Prime Lennox Lewis.

[jimmy1569]

An out of shape professional golfer shows you how

'NUFF SAID... you want to legitimately beat them... this is the ONLY way known to mankind. You have to be a southpaw.. you have to be fast & powerful & look like a golfer. If you don't POSSESS this attribute... yOU PRAY for stamina issues to get the better of them while withstanding there offensive assault on your membrane. If you're tough enough.. it could happen.

There's alaways the proverbial lottery injury & or cut that could have the fight stopped in your favor while completely being outboxed/outclassed.

102 fights.... ONLY 3 possibilities to choose from.... with all 3 NOT having occurred in 7 yrs.
Odds of beating a Klitschko in ANY way shape or form is once every 20.4 bouts... for you mathematicians out there.... every fighter has less than 5% chance to pull off a Klitschko W. Odds of the same fighter beating both KLITSCHKO'S is impossible as it's very rare a fighter fights both of them... it's happened 4 times. In fact Lennox Lewis is the ONLY fighter that has a winning record against a Klitschko. everyone else is .500 (Sanders & Purrity broke even) or below vs them with Sam Peter being the most pathetic & pummeled opponent (O FOR 3 AGAINST THE KLISCHKO NAME BRAND) cHRIS bYRD has also been outboxed 3 times by a Klitschko & you gotta give him an A FOR EFFORT,, I GUESS a gift wrapped W will suffice as he's earned if for getting in there 3 times.. something Lennox CAN take pointers from but he wanted to keep the 100% WINNING IN TACT VS THEM. Lewis is the ONLY one they ever lost to that didn't comply with the Klitschko rematch clause after he won against them..i guess you could say Lennox is the smartest fighter either one of the Klitschko's has ever faced.

As you can clearly see it's a daunting task for ANYONE to partake in... there's ONLY a 13.7 % chance you DON'T get stopped...odds of NOT getting stopped is once every 7.3 bouts that you don't get ktfo.. so if i'm there opponent i'm expecting to get knocked out unless i'm holding on for dear life for the duration of the fight or waiting for freak occurences to unfold that will enable to swing the fight in my favor after i've been pummeled & outboxed thoroughly.

The End

[daggum]

step 1. don't be an out of shape tub of goo with no agility or stamina

step 2. oh wait everyone failed step 1

[bojangles1987]

Head movement is an ancient and obsolete tactic??? Crimeney jicket!!!

I mean, I don't think I've ever seen someone say head movement was a bad idea. It doesn't matter who you fight, head movement is a great idea. It's called defense.

LMAO, head movement as a bad idea. Wow.