I'd give Ortiz a better shot at beating Mayweather than Manny...............

[gopi11]

Maybe Ortiz fights to the level of his opponent? I remember Salvador Sanchez having his issues with Ruben Castillo, Pat Cowdell. Mayweather himself didn't looked to stellar against Sosa and Corley imo.


The key for me, is that Ortiz is a lefty, but not a fighting lefty like Manny, but one who is capable of working his openings off the jab, but one who also has power and skill.

Mayweather might be on another level in terms of skills, but I dont think Manny is on that level either.

The best Manny would do against Mayweather imo, is make him fight at a slightly faster pace than he would like to, albeit still get hit with the cleaner punches whilst trying to apply that pressure.

Manny can only mount attacks from other angles after he's pinned you down with his first punch, but what happens when you take away his left hand, his set up punch?


If you have a leaky defense, you aren't going to beat Mayweather.

It's not even hard to shoot your opinion down. Here's Pac's "left" hand, his set-up punch:



[img]http://i209.***********.com/albums/bb225/klersmyler/PACLAND/1stKD2.gif[/img]

BONUS GIF

[img]http://i6.***********.com/albums/y247/philhaj/zabkdf.gif[/img]

[Walt Liquor]

I think Mayweather stops him, Ortiz is reckless, kind of reminds me of an earlier Timothy Bradley in that sense.

right. Running in behind no jab and not much head movement. Against berto with his hands down and no legs, apparenty that's "creating openings", against Floyd that's "hattoncide"

[Dynamite Kid]

Ortiz has a jab? It was either the Campbell fight or the petesoj fight where he threw 8 freakin jabs the whole fight.

He does not create openings witH his jab.

WTF is wrong with you?

Lulz, manny can't create openeings lulz. Ok so he lands 400 punches a fight, because he feints. The #1 pfp fighter and offensive juggernaut can't create openings except for using feints.

Well I doubt it was the the Campbell fight, cause he pretty much circled and Boxed around him the whole night from what I remember. Ortiz could be more active with it, but when he does use it, he has a decent/good jab imo.

Lulz, manny can't create openeings lulz. Ok so he lands 400 punches a fight, because he feints. The #1 pfp fighter and offensive juggernaut can't create openings except for using feints

.

400 punches against who? counter punchers? You dont have to create openings when the opponent is coming to you, being aggressive, you can work your openings off his aggression by walking him into shots.

A jab is how you create openings, its what puts the guy on his heels, or blinds the guy so you can put something behind it. Manny relys on feinting to offset your timing, then leaping in with the straight left.

[Dynamite Kid]

It's not even hard to shoot your opinion down. Here's Pac's "left" hand, his set-up punch:



[img]http://i209.***********.com/albums/bb225/klersmyler/PACLAND/1stKD2.gif[/img]

BONUS GIF

[img]http://i6.***********.com/albums/y247/philhaj/zabkdf.gif[/img]

Both opponents went after Manny. You dont have to create offense when the guy is coming to you, your offense can be worked off your counter punching ability as he comes in.

[Dynamite Kid]

right. Running in behind no jab and not much head movement. Against berto with his hands down and no legs, apparenty that's "creating openings", against Floyd that's "hattoncide"

He wouldn't fight that kind of fight against someone like Floyd would he? Berto had to be constantly kept in his place, as you dont want to allow someone to overwhelm you with their aggression, particularly if they can punch a bit. You have to get your respect, maybe Ortiz took that too literal, but its a needs must situation depending on who your fighting, that is what you formulate your strategy around.

[Bushbaby]

Well Dynamite,ur analysis is in dept & make sense.But Pacman does have a really good chance at Floyd based on activity alone.The difference between Pacman & Floyd's usual opponents is that Pacman's offense is usually not dissuaded.Floyd makes the average opponent not want to commit,that won't happen with the Pacman,he'll keep throwing & throwing & throwing,if Floyd blocks 5 in a row,he better be prepared to block 5 more blazing fast punches,(not gonna happen).This is the reason why i think anyone with a high workrate who isn't afraid to get hit gives Floyd problems.Like Manny & the Punisher.

[gopi11]

Both opponents went after Manny. You dont have to create offense when the guy is coming to you, your offense can be worked off your counter punching ability as he comes in.

Check out the first Pacquiao/Barrera fight. Marco was pretty much on the back pedal all night and seems content on laying a trap when Manny decides to go on the offensive, but Pacman still managed to get to him.

[Dynamite Kid]

Well Dynamite,ur analysis is in dept & make sense.But Pacman does have a really good chance at Floyd based on activity alone.The difference between Pacman & Floyd's usual opponents is that Pacman's offense is usually not dissuaded.Floyd makes the average opponent not want to commit,that won't happen with the Pacman,he'll keep throwing & throwing & throwing,if Floyd blocks 5 in a row,he better be prepared to block 5 more blazing fast punches,(not gonna happen).This is the reason why i think anyone with a high workrate who isn't afraid to get hit gives Floyd problems.Like Manny & the Punisher.

I thought that, but does he though? cause I can remember watching the rematch with Marquez, and he seemed a bit more thoughtful after getting countered a few times, a bit more reluctant to keep throwing the left. I agree that if Manny gets desperate he will keep doing it, but if he doesn't have that break through success to change the complexion of the fight, will he keep doing it, or will he try and workout how to come in more strategically? cause slowing the tempo down, obviously suits the counter puncher.

You make a good point there, and that is what he will have to do to beat Mayweather imo, cause his defense is simply not good enough for that not to be the case. If Manny wants to press, and wants to win, he might have to neglect his defense to make Mayweather fight, but that could be dangerous to, given that Mayweather is bigger, he hurt DLH momentarily, and if Manny is coming in like that, who's to say he doesn't get hit with a counter he doesn't see?

[Dynamite Kid]

Check out the first Pacquiao/Barrera fight. Marco was pretty much on the back pedal all night and seems content on laying a trap when Manny decides to go on the offensive, but Pacman still managed to get to him.

Mayweather is longer than Marco, so Manny will have a bigger killzone to cross, which will give Mayweather more time to find a counter punch, he's a better counter puncher than Marco to, and uses his legs more.

[jtiger777]

style wise ortiz has a better chance, mannys style is right on for floyds i see what ur saying but ur gonna get cursed out badly on this thread