"Andre Berto is a slick African American fighter who Manny is ducking"

[jrosales13]

that's not what I meant. I merely meant that they are more proven then Berto. For all I know (based on what i've seen) Berto could possibly get knocked out cold by Pac in the first or second round. And I am not basing that on Ortiz beating him. I am basing that on the way he fights. I merely meant that I would pick Margarito, and Mosley over Berto in terms of competition for Pac. Do I support those fights, or believe they are legit?

No! I think both are bull****. Str8 bull****.

Nevertheless, that's not what we're arguing. The emphasis of this argument relies on whether Berto was a better fight for Pac then Mosley, or Marg, which based on my previous statements, and analysis I would have to say no it's not.

But, we're basing of who's more proving by what they did years ago and ignoring that Mosley only has one win at WW in the last 3 years.

Basically living off yesteryear.

Again, I agree I have always said that Pac would have stopped Berto inside 6 rounds. Berto would have gotten KTFO. However, an undefeated top 3 title holder deserves the fight moreso than a guy who only has won one fight in the division in the last 3 years.

Look it up if you don't believe me. In the last 36 months, Mosley has only won one fight at WW.

And, again yes Pac could/would have destroyed Berto. But, again this is Pac fans acting like Floyd fans again. The whole Floyd vs Margarito argument. Where Floyd fans said that Floyd would have outbox and damn near shutout the slow plodding overhyped Margarito.

Whether it's true or not, fact is, it didn't happen but it should have happened. And, that's my point.

[-Spinal-]

Of course Berto would have been the better pick over Margarito and Mosley at this point Hi-Dro.

Let's look at the facts. Margarito was not ranked top 10 P4P, not ranked top 10 WW, not ranked top 10 JMW. Remind me what that fight meant again? "another alphabet title"?

Mosley hasn't won a fight in years, he was behind Berto in the top 10 WW's until tonight.

Now let's look at Berto, undefeated, 27 years old, WBC WW champion, was #3 only behind Mayweather and Pacquiao at WW[if you can't get Mayweather, why not fight the next best ranked WW?].

"Mosley and Margarito had done more in the game than Berto while Berto hasn't done ****"...Right now let's support fights like Lopez vs Marquez II instead of Lopez vs John/Gamboa because Marquez is much more accomplished than those two. Let's defend match ups like Roy Jones vs Calzaghe over Dawson/Froch vs Calzaghe because Jones was fighter of the decade, in the 90s and he's champion in 4 weight classes, and Froch/Dawson are still unproven, undefeated fighters who pose a threat, but not as decorated as the 40 year old Jones.

[Khalid X]

So basically we're living off yesteryear? It's pretty much the same thing to keep on fighting old washed up recycled fighters cuz' of what they did years ago than fighting prime, undefeated top 3 title holder...GOTCHA.

I guess one win in the last 3 years in the division should be ignored.

Honestly man....the Mosley fight sucks as well. I have always said this, but to sit here and pretend Berto's title means something is kinda ridiculous. I'll give him the Quintana fight, but other than that he has done nothing. That's like me arguing Manny vs Foreman was a legit fight at 154 due to Yuri beating Santos....when everyone knows that belt didn't mean squat as both guys were terrible.

[brick wall]

Why would it have looked poor in substance? I think it would have been a sensation looking victory for Pac. It would have been a highlight reel KO.

because in reality pac is levels beyond berto. and like i said, pac would still get his props so in a way a victory over berto will look good (in form) but a victory against shane will be taken for granted. so if you ask me, i still prefer a pac-berto than a pac-shane fight.

[Hi-Dro]

But, we're basing of who's more proving by what they did years ago and ignoring that Mosley only has one win at WW in the last 3 years.

Basically living off yesteryear.

Again, I agree I have always said that Pac would have stopped Berto inside 6 rounds. Berto would have gotten KTFO. However, an undefeated top 3 title holder deserves the fight moreso than a guy who only has won one fight in the division in the last 3 years.

Look it up if you don't believe me. In the last 36 months, Mosley has only won one fight at WW.

And, again yes Pac could/would have destroyed Berto. But, again this is Pac fans acting like Floyd fans again. The whole Floyd vs Margarito argument. Where Floyd fans said that Floyd would have outbox and damn near shutout the slow plodding overhyped Margarito.

But, fact is, it didn't happen but it should have happened. And, that's my point.

Mosleys win over Marg> any of Berto's wins.

Berto has only had one solid win, which was against Collazo at WW; If memory serves me right it was a little before Mosley beat the brakes of Marg who was the champ. After that neither Mosley, nor Berto had a solid win at WW. However, Mosley fought Floyd, and Berto kept fighting JWW'S. So of course Mosley looked bad, whereas Berto looked promising. Once again I am not saying Mosley-Pac is legit. It's as full of Bull**** as a fight can get. Nevertheless, Berto-Pac makes Mosley-Pac look like the fight of the decade. That's my mere emphasis.

I don't care if Berto was undefeated. Who did he fight, as opposed to Mosley? What made him deserving of the 3 spot? What challengers did he face for his title that presented a risk?

Margarito was atleast proven, and earned his name, whereas Berto was a hypejob who was given all those external factors you want to use as justification for Pac facing him.
Don't compare a ***** to a floyd fan.

Fact is the Mosley fight is Bull****. The Marg fight was Bull****. Yet the Berto fight makes them seem competitive.

[-Spinal-]

Honestly man....the Mosley fight sucks as well. I have always said this, but to sit here and pretend Berto's title means something is kinda ridiculous. I'll give him the Quintana fight, but other than that he has done nothing. That's like me arguing Manny vs Foreman was a legit fight at 154 due to Yuri beating Santos....when everyone knows that belt didn't mean squat as both guys were terrible.

If titles mean nothing then what was the meaning of the Margarito fight at 150 for a vacant JMW title? The whole point *******s made of that fight was because of Pacquiao's title in 8 different weight classes. So titles only matter sometimes?

[Hi-Dro]

Of course Berto would have been the better pick over Margarito and Mosley at this point Hi-Dro.

Let's look at the facts. Margarito was not ranked top 10 P4P, not ranked top 10 WW, not ranked top 10 JMW. Remind me what that fight meant again? "another alphabet title"?

Mosley hasn't won a fight in years, he was behind Berto in the top 10 WW's until tonight.

Now let's look at Berto, undefeated, 27 years old, WBC WW champion, was #3 only behind Mayweather and Pacquiao at WW[if you can't get Mayweather, why not fight the next best ranked WW?].

"Mosley and Margarito had done more in the game than Berto while Berto hasn't done ****"...Right now let's support fights like Lopez vs Marquez II instead of Lopez vs John/Gamboa because Marquez is much more accomplished than those two. Let's defend match ups like Roy Jones vs Calzaghe over Dawson/Froch vs Calzaghe because Jones was fighter of the decade, in the 90s and he's champion in 4 weight classes, and Froch/Dawson are still unproven, undefeated fighters who pose a threat, but not as decorated as the 40 year old Jones.

We're not getting anywurrr tonight. I'm not condoning Marg, and Mosley fighting Pac because of what they have done.

I simply said that compared to Berto I would pick them as more of a threat to pac considering what they have shown in the ring. It's not like they were off for 4-5years or more. They are still bull**** fights in my eyes. Fights that aren't competitive, nor should they viewed as such.

Except I view Berto as such a ****ty boxer that yes I do hold Marg and Mosley in more high regards then him. It's not like they're completely shot.

[jrosales13]

because in reality pac is levels beyond berto. and like i said, pac would still get his props so in a way a victory over berto will look good (in form) but a victory against shane will be taken for granted. so if you ask me, i still prefer a pac-berto than a pac-shane fight.

I agree, and I think it would have been such a destruction that it would have been a highlight reel KO, Hatton-esque type of KO. That's why I don't think it would have been poor in substance. Unless you mean competitive wise, then yea I agree.

I also agree with everything else. I prefer Pac-Berto>>>Pac-Shane as well...I can't see how how some Pac fans wouldn't.

[Hi-Dro]

If titles mean nothing then what was the meaning of the Margarito fight at 150 for a vacant JMW title? The whole point *******s made of that fight was because of Pacquiao's title in 8 different weight classes. So titles only matter sometimes?

the meaning was to sell the fight.

Aside from that their was no meaning.

Pac is a fake as.s 8th division champ. As a matter of fact he's not an 8th division champ. I refuse to call him that because doing so would only condone bull****.

[jrosales13]

Honestly man....the Mosley fight sucks as well. I have always said this, but to sit here and pretend Berto's title means something is kinda ridiculous. I'll give him the Quintana fight, but other than that he has done nothing. That's like me arguing Manny vs Foreman was a legit fight at 154 due to Yuri beating Santos....when everyone knows that belt didn't mean squat as both guys were terrible.

He also had Collazo besides Quintana. Either way.

Yes Berto title was paper. But, bro that's the same argument that Floyd fans used for Marg. That Marg title was paper. Yet Baldomir was lineal, or that Judah was this and that.

Do you think Floyd avoided Marg?