Shaver's Punching Power Is Completely Overrated.

[BennyST]

No shit he can ****. So can dozens of guys without one iota of the reverence that Shavers gets.

I think you're missing the entire point though. You are talking about vastly different things. You are including general skill, finishing ability, boxing skill, strength into the equation.

Shavers sent a lot of very, very good fighters who had shown excellent chins staggering around like drunk fools. His one punch KO's are brutal and some of his near one punch KO's are also incredibly brutal but not being able to finish off those fighters is a testament to their skill, not his lack of it.

For instance, no one was e ver able to do to Holmes what Shavers did, but the fact that Holmes got out of it is a testament to his chin, will and heart not the fact that Shavers isn't a very hard puncher.

He is clearly one of the hardest punchers ever.

This Rassclot guy is one of those classic fools that look at the wrong things entirely. How many KO's you have is dependent on much more than just power. Vitali doesn't hit very hard, yet has a a staggering amount.

Shavers hit much, much harder than Vitali. That's clear. However, it has as much to do with who he fought and his skill outside of power.

Shavers hurting a lot of guys, and he hurt most that he fought, is the biggest testament to the fact that he hit like a ****ing truck. He just often wasn't good enough to use that to get them away. In the case of Ali, no one got as close including Foreman to basically knocking him out. Not being able to is a case of ALi's greatness as much as Shavers just not being good enough, despite his power.

People are confusing overall skill to pure punching power. Tyson didn't hit harder, imo, than Shavers. He was a much better fighter though. His speed and finishing skill was leagues ahead of Shavers and his combination punching was out of this world in his prime. That allowed him, along with his great power, to get guys out of there really quick. I'd say they are pretty close, but I saw guys that were as iron chinned as have ever been in a ring staggered badly. Cobb was hurt and put down, Holmes was hurt worse than anyone ever hurt him (including Tyson, even though Tyson actually got the knock out), Ali got ****ed up, Ellis, Young...lots of guys that were tough, good and iron chinned were hurt worse or stopped worse by Shavers than anyone else.


It's all there. You just need to know about the guys he fought. Jimmy Young was only stopped by Shavers and he fought everyone.

It's not about what people say either. It's about what's actually there in film and record. Briggs saying he got hit harder by Vitali is just silly. He clearly didn't otherwise he would have been knocked out much easier. Vitali could't stop him at all when he was 40 and shot to ****, Lewis did while in his prime in five rounds. It's there, just like it's there that Shavers knocked out a lot of great fighters and hurt a lot of great fighters badly.

Also, Briggs said that right after the fight and this was over ten years after being beaten up and knocked out in five rounds to Lewis in his twenties. Guys were saying that stuff about Shavers during their era of fights with guys like Frazier, Foreman, Lyle etc. Most of them that fought him said it at the same time they had been fighting Foreman, Frazier etc etc. There is a pretty big difference between saying it in your 40's after a decision loss and forgetting about what happened in your 20's while getting knocked out.

Shavers didn't actually get very many accumulative knock outs because he wasn't a guy with great stamina like Vitali. All his knock outs were off big single shots. The guy Rassclot says that he and Vitali are similar in that they both score accumulation knock outs.....Clearly he has not ever seen Shavers' fights because he doesn't get those type of wins. He's not that type of fighter or puncher. You only need to have seen his fights to know that.

[joseph5620]

I could never understand why some people feel the need to try to tear others down in order to make themselves/their favorite athlete feel/look better.



Looks like he can **** to me.

You are exactly right. That's what it's all about.

[nomadman]

I think you're missing the entire point though. You are talking about vastly different things. You are including general skill, finishing ability, boxing skill, strength into the equation.

No I'm not. I understand this argument is ultimately about punching power, but to correctly assess that you need to separate it from those other qualities. People in this thread were arguing for Shavers's one punch power and showing vids where he batters someone into a TKO to 'prove' it. Or arguing that Shavers lack of finishing ability was the reason why he didn't end a fighter whom he'd just caught flush on the jaw at full power, etc. I was responding to these people, and if we did end up digressing a little I can only apologise for my part in it and hope to steer the argument back on track.

Shavers sent a lot of very, very good fighters who had shown excellent chins staggering around like drunk fools. His one punch KO's are brutal and some of his near one punch KO's are also incredibly brutal but not being able to finish off those fighters is a testament to their skill, not his lack of it.

I've seen every Shavers fight I can find and the only fighter I ever saw him KO with one punch was Jimmy Ellis. Now I haven't seen every Shavers fight, which is why I asked several times on this thread for any other instances of him doing it to another fighter. So far I've received no response. I can only go by what I see, and one single one punch KO is not enough to convince me that Shavers is one of the hardest, if not the hardest, punchers in history, as people continually proclaim. Sorry.

As for not finishing fighters off when he had them hurt, I'm willing to give him slack regarding Holmes, Ali and even Lyle, but there are more than a few lesser fighters on that list whom Shavers really should have been able to KO cleanly after knocking them down. That he didn't cannot wholly be related to his 'lack' of finishing ability (which I actually consider one of his underrated qualities).

I think I've said this before, but prior to the second Barrett fight, I can't recall a single fighter who got knocked down by Tua that went on to even make it to the finish line, let alone win the fight. Essentially, if you got KD'ed by Tua you were toast.

Now Tua and Shavers aren't that far apart in skill level, I think. I'd rank their finishing ability as somewhat similar, with Tua having the faster combinations, and Shavers having the greater tenacity and variation of assault. You're free to agree of disagree with this, it isn't my point. My main point is that nearly every fighter Tua KDed was just a drooling mess afterwards, they could barely hold their hands up let alone think about clinching or trying to stay out of trouble. Even if Tua had the finishing ability of a rabbit it wouldn't have taken them much to go down, because they were that effed up.

If Shavers really had the staggering power that people claim then he wouldn't have needed much finishing ability to get the stoppage.

For instance, no one was e ver able to do to Holmes what Shavers did, but the fact that Holmes got out of it is a testament to his chin, will and heart not the fact that Shavers isn't a very hard puncher.

Uh, Tyson?

Shavers hurting a lot of guys, and he hurt most that he fought, is the biggest testament to the fact that he hit like a ****ing truck. He just often wasn't good enough to use that to get them away. In the case of Ali, no one got as close including Foreman to basically knocking him out. Not being able to is a case of ALi's greatness as much as Shavers just not being good enough, despite his power.

First off, I'm not dis*****g that he hit like a truck. Shavers was definitely a very hard puncher, and he had the power to hurt a lot of sturdy guys, and did so. But there seem to be a lot of rules that Shavers gets exempt from in discussions like this. Like the Ali fight for example.

I think most people would agree that Ali was way past his prime when he fought Shavers. His legs were gone, and if you have no legs you can't absorb punches as well. Ali became a punching bag for large swathes of that fight, taking a lot of punches at almost full power, and getting staggered more than once. And yet despite this Shavers was never able to get a knock down. Frazier did, on a much younger and fresher Ali, and he did it with one punch, not to mention nearly making Ali quit on his stool in the Thrilla in Manila. Now I'm not arguing that Frazier was a harder puncher than Shavers, but taking into account Ali's condition when he fought them I'm more impressed by what Frazier did than what Shavers (nearly) did.

Now take the Holmes fight. Shavers gets a KD on Holmes (pretty impressive) but goes the distance and loses. Yet Tyson gets the KO, including a KD that was practically identical to the Shavers one, a few years later and suddenly Holmes is too old, past it, etc (though not too old and past it to fight successfully for another ten years at a world championship level).

Then there's the whole issue of quotes. For some reason any quote pertaining to Shavers is taken without question, yup, every single word is true regardless of whether or not it makes sense. But quotes about any other fighter get dismissed or questioned (as any quote should) if they don't square with reality.

But I'm digressing again. Sorry.

People are confusing overall skill to pure punching power. Tyson didn't hit harder, imo, than Shavers. He was a much better fighter though. His speed and finishing skill was leagues ahead of Shavers and his combination punching was out of this world in his prime. That allowed him, along with his great power, to get guys out of there really quick. I'd say they are pretty close, but I saw guys that were as iron chinned as have ever been in a ring staggered badly. Cobb was hurt and put down, Holmes was hurt worse than anyone ever hurt him (including Tyson, even though Tyson actually got the knock out), Ali got ****ed up, Ellis, Young...lots of guys that were tough, good and iron chinned were hurt worse or stopped worse by Shavers than anyone else.

I made a clear difference earlier in the thread between Tyson's skill and combination punching and his raw power when comparing him to Shavers. I also pointed out that Tyson has more one punch knockdowns and knockouts (on tape anyway) than Shavers.

Tyson is a fighter I think whose one punch power actually gets overlooked due to his other skills. Tyson's power was huge. There are plenty of instances of him flattening big sturdy guys with one or two shots and causing all sorts of horrible injuries like he did to Golota, a naturally bigger and sturdier man than Howard Smith, whom I believed sustained similar injuries from Shavers.

But of course their common opponent in Holmes provides the most telling contrast.

It's not about what people say either. It's about what's actually there in film and record.

Well exactly! That's what I've been trying to get into people's heads all through this thread. What a fighter says shouldn't be given precendence over what actually happened.

Briggs saying he got hit harder by Vitali is just silly. He clearly didn't otherwise he would have been knocked out much easier. Vitali could't stop him at all when he was 40 and shot to ****, Lewis did while in his prime in five rounds. It's there, just like it's there that Shavers knocked out a lot of great fighters and hurt a lot of great fighters badly.

Yes! And Holmes saying he got hit harder by Shavers than Tyson must also be questioned, right?

Also, Briggs said that right after the fight and this was over ten years after being beaten up and knocked out in five rounds to Lewis in his twenties. Guys were saying that stuff about Shavers during their era of fights with guys like Frazier, Foreman, Lyle etc. Most of them that fought him said it at the same time they had been fighting Foreman, Frazier etc etc. There is a pretty big difference between saying it in your 40's after a decision loss and forgetting about what happened in your 20's while getting knocked out.

I'm not arguing with you about Briggs, my man. I just wish people applied this same logic to fighters that talked about Shavers, is all.

Shavers didn't actually get very many accumulative knock outs because he wasn't a guy with great stamina like Vitali. All his knock outs were off big single shots. The guy Rassclot says that he and Vitali are similar in that they both score accumulation knock outs.....Clearly he has not ever seen Shavers' fights because he doesn't get those type of wins. He's not that type of fighter or puncher. You only need to have seen his fights to know that.

They're not the same type of fighter, no. But I wouldn't call Shavers a clean, one punch knockout artist either. He tended to hurt guys with single shots, then swarm them and get the KD, the KO or the TKO. He did it against Norton, he did it against Smith, he did it against Clark, Bugner and Williams. In all of those fights the opponent was either bludgeoned into submission or saved from further punishment by the ref. They weren't clean KOs in the manner of Lewis Rahman II, Tua Wilson, Wlad Chambers, Foreman Moorer etc where the guy gets flattened with one shot and doesn't get back up.

Here's Tua vs Wilson, about as clean a one shot KO as you'll ever find in the heavyweight division.



Shavers was a notch below that IMO.

[BennyST]

They're not the same type of fighter, no. But I wouldn't call Shavers a clean, one punch knockout artist either. He tended to hurt guys with single shots, then swarm them and get the KD, the KO or the TKO. He did it against Norton, he did it against Smith, he did it against Clark, Bugner and Williams. In all of those fights the opponent was either bludgeoned into submission or saved from further punishment by the ref. They weren't clean KOs in the manner of Lewis Rahman II, Tua Wilson, Wlad Chambers, Foreman Moorer etc where the guy gets flattened with one shot and doesn't get back up.

*sigh*

You're taking single examples of one punch KO's from many fighters are applying it to one? Find a single fighter in history where most of his KO's from one shot where the guy doesn't get back up....You won't because there aren't any.

Shavers hurt lots of guys with one shot. Not accumulative punishment over a whole fight. That is exactly what one punch power is. Finding one fight here and there with a true single punch KO is rare. Considering you've probably only seen a few of Shavers fights, how many of them are you missing? You found one against a top level fighter. Now what about all his other KO's against guys of Darrell Wilsons level?

All the stuff you're talking about now is making him exempt from all the usual rules that apply to everyone else too. He is one of the hardest punchers in the history of the sport and heavyweight division. He doesn't need to have knocked out every one of his opponents with one shot. The fact he was able to hurt nearly every fighter he fought without wearing them down over a fight is just more evidence and you seem to agree with that, so why are you still arguing?

No one is claiming he is some super god of punching, but he clearly belongs up there in the discussion among the great power punchers like Jackson, Hearns, McClellan etc. Just because Wlad and Vitali don't hit as hard means jack ****. They are better fighters overall so what difference does it make?

They don't have to be better than everyone at everything all the time in every era every which way to be great.

Shavers was clearly better in one punch KO power.

You will rarely find someone who was able to hurt nearly everyone he fought with single shots like Shavers was.

Tua is up there among the great heavyweight punchers for sure. Who says he isn't?

Shavers still put most away, but nitpicking over tiny details is tedious and doesn't prove anything. You're nitpicking over tiny details that apply to every great fighter and puncher. He stopped most of the guys he fought. He stopped most early with KO's. There were about 6 or 7 in his 75 wins that made it through the fight. There were about ten guys that made it through Tua's 50 wins, but supposedly all were slobbering messes that got knocked out with one shot? Come on mate, get real.

Having nearly every major fight of Tua's on vid and all his best KO's highlighted on youtube from early on will allow us to see all his best KO's.

Of Shavers' 80+ fights, how many have you seen? Five? Out of those few you found one single punch KO. Every one of Tua's best KO's is available on vid and his best single punch KO's are on highlight on youtube and you're arguing that Shavers didn't leave guys a slobbering mess like Tua did to everyone? You found, apart from the Ruiz fight, his best one punch KO. Shall I show you all the other fights where he knocked guys down, they got back and it ended with them either getting battered on the ropes, going back down again or the ref just stopping it?

Arguing the way you are is the same as arguing that Hearns isn't one of the hardest punchers ever. Hey, most of his fights from early on are available to see on vid or youtube, and there aren't that many of his that are single punch KO's where the guy doesn't get back up. Clearly he doesn't hit as hard as people make out and is overrated. Same as Jackson. How many fights can you find where he lands one punch only and the guy is done for? Totally overrated.

Nitpicking that Shavers' KO of Norton is not indicative of his power is just bizarre. Tua lands a bunch of shots until he lands a perfect flush left hook that knocks out some dude. Shavers lands a bunch of glancing blows in which nearly every one looks like it clearly hurts Norton quite badly, then tags him with a shot that leaves him done for. This is Norton though. A great champion who got up from everything. He got up from three straight open target flush uppercuts from George Foreman who put everything into them. It's not really comparable to knocking out some bum contender who got knocked out in nearly every one of his many losses. How many of those bum contender fights that Shavers won by one punch have we not seen? It's easy to find Tua's best KO's because he is a current fighter who has all of his fights on vid. You only see Shavers few biggest title shots and fights. But hey, here you go. All of Tua's best KO's including his two greatest single punch KOs.


Just look at all those one punch KOs and slobbering messes. An entire three of his best career highlight KOs here weren't able to get back up! Of the five Shavers fights you've seen, none equal any of those brutal ten count KO's, not a single TKO among them. Norton still got up after the first knockdown!

Anyway, if you feel that he is overrated and someone other guy that you love is underrated so be it. Keep finding whatever you want to see. I think it's pretty clear that he was one of the hardest punchers at heavyweight.

[BennyST]

You found single examples of lots of different fighters with one punch KO's to argue that Shavers couldn't do that. Well, here's one of Shavers few available fights also showing a one punch KO, albeit this is against a top fighter desperately determined not to lose and to get up, but can't.



See, we can all play that game? Find a rare one punch KO and use it to pretend someone wasn't a KO puncher.

You seem smart enough not to fall into that NSB type argument, but it's pretty easy to do this with every ATG puncher.

No fighter, ever, has consistently produced one punch KO's. No one. The guy I would truly rate as probably the hardest single puncher is just another classic example of what you're arguing against. He hurts lots and lots and lots of guys with one punch (which is, to me anyway, the definition of one punch power), a bit like Shavers, and he certainly produced some amazing single punch KO's and I think probably more than anyone but most still came after hurting the guy first, then putting him away with a barrage. No one does what you want and argue Shavers should do. Once again, even with Jackson, we have every one of his greatest single punch KOs against the best fighter and the worst. If he fought forty years we'd probably only have his biggest fights and maybe we'd have one or two of his single punch KO's.

[Rassclot]

I see you idiots are still hung up on that 1 ellis KO huh? LMAO


David Tua has plenty of 1 punch KO's.

Lennox Lewis doe as well. He 1 punched Tyson. Rahman. both of whom had tremendous chins..


Wlad has way more 1 punch KO's than Shavers.



Tyson has more as well. Spinks. Botha. Johnson. Frazier were all down for the count.

Marciano has many 1 punch KO's.



Shavers does not even contend with those guys. his punchin power is completely overrated. it realy is a fairtytale that his opponents painted to uplift their own legacies.

[BennyST]

I see you idiots are still hung up on that 1 ellis KO huh? LMAO


David Tua has plenty of 1 punch KO's.

Lennox Lewis doe as well. He 1 punched Tyson. Rahman. both of whom had tremendous chins..


Wlad has way more 1 punch KO's than Shavers.



Tyson has more as well. Spinks. Botha. Johnson. Frazier were all down for the count.

Marciano has many 1 punch KO's.



Shavers does not even contend with those guys. his punchin power is completely overrated. it realy is a fairtytale that his opponents painted to uplift their own legacies.

No one is hung up on it. That was the point of the whole argument.

Just out of curiosity though, of all those current fighters in which every KO of theirs is available on film, do you think Shavers knock out of Ellis is his only one punch KO in his whole career? You listed two from Lewis despite all of his KO's being available.

You seriously think that Shavers doesn't punch hard because you can only find the Ellis KO among his relatively few fights?

Wow.

Also, for curiosity, name one other one punch KO by Marciano apart from his Walcott KO? I'll wait.

Just to confirm though, I don't think he is the hardest puncher of all time. He is clearly one of the hardest punchers at heavyweight though. Name ten fighters that were better punchers at heavyweight?

[White_Knight]

You can't judge punching power by the number of one punch knock outs because a fighter with quicker hand speed will land more of his punches. A boxer with slower hand speed may throw a lot of punches that miss but would knockout opponents if they landed.

I'd say it goes like this:

1. Shavers
2. Foreman
3. Tyson

[tenPt]

Shavers is high on the hardest puncher lists of many ****zines, books and historians. Anyone that denies that he had great power either has no boxing knowledge or is a nuthugger trying downplay what history obviously states.

[nomadman]

*sigh*

You're taking single examples of one punch KO's from many fighters are applying it to one? Find a single fighter in history where most of his KO's from one shot where the guy doesn't get back up....You won't because there aren't any.

Yes......... I know that.

One punch KOs are rare, especially at the top end of the sport. That's why when you have more than a couple over even good to mid-level fighters it counts for a hell of a lot.

Shavers has a reputation among boxing fans as one of the biggest one punch KO artists in history. So I judge him by high standards.

Shavers hurt lots of guys with one shot. Not accumulative punishment over a whole fight. That is exactly what one punch power is. Finding one fight here and there with a true single punch KO is rare.

Hurting guys with one shot and KOing them with one shot are not the same thing. A fighter who consistently KDs or KOs fighters with one or two shots is punching harder than a guy who hurts them with those same shots. That's logical. And Shavers wasn't a particularly inaccurate puncher; many of his KDs came from flush shots which he got full leverage into.

People talk about Shavers as if he was a puncher like Foreman, who clubbed guys with slow glancing arm punches and still hurt them. If that was the case then there'd be some room for speculation as to the true extent of his power. But look at the Holmes KD. Shavers launches himself at Holmes and catches him flush on the jaw. It's about as clean a punch as you could hope to land. And this wasn't the only one of its kind he landed in his career, as I'm sure you're aware.

Therefore, considering his reputation, it has to count against him that he wasn't able to get more knockouts with some of the punches he landed.

Remember the standards I'm judging him by here.

Considering you've probably only seen a few of Shavers fights, how many of them are you missing? You found one against a top level fighter. Now what about all his other KO's against guys of Darrell Wilsons level?

You tell me.

If you know of any other one punch KOs that Shavers got in his career then I'd love to know.

I've not exactly made it a secret that there are many of Shavers's 80 odd fights I've not seen. But judging by the lack of any answer to my above question from anyone in this thread, I suspect I'm not alone.

BTW, Wilson was undefeated and coming off a KO of Briggs at the time Tua beat him. Not a bum.

All the stuff you're talking about now is making him exempt from all the usual rules that apply to everyone else too. He is one of the hardest punchers in the history of the sport and heavyweight division. He doesn't need to have knocked out every one of his opponents with one shot. The fact he was able to hurt nearly every fighter he fought without wearing them down over a fight is just more evidence and you seem to agree with that, so why are you still arguing?

No one is claiming he is some super god of punching, but he clearly belongs up there in the discussion among the great power punchers like Jackson, Hearns, McClellan etc. Just because Wlad and Vitali don't hit as hard means jack ****. They are better fighters overall so what difference does it make?

But that's exactly what people claim, and have been claiming for the last thirty years.

"Shavers is the hardest punching heavyweight of all time."

"Shavers had the hardest right hand in history."

"Shavers was the best knockout artist ever."

And variations of the sort. That's what I'm arguing against. I think such claims are unjustified and based on a lot of iffy speculation, among other things, and I'm challenging them. That's all.

You want to claim that Shavers was a hard punching heavyweight who knocked down and rocked a lot of great fighters? Fine, no argument from me there.

But that's not what people claim when they talk about Shavers.

They don't have to be better than everyone at everything all the time in every era every which way to be great.

Shavers was clearly better in one punch KO power.

You will rarely find someone who was able to hurt nearly everyone he fought with single shots like Shavers was.

I'm not a Klitschko nuthugger like you seem to think, but Wlad has 1 punch KOs over Chambers, Thompson and Brock off the top of my head. Shavers has Ellis. Just curious how you justify him being "clearly better in one punch KO power"?

Shavers still put most away, but nitpicking over tiny details is tedious and doesn't prove anything. You're nitpicking over tiny details that apply to every great fighter and puncher. He stopped most of the guys he fought. He stopped most early with KO's. There were about 6 or 7 in his 75 wins that made it through the fight.

Is it nitpicking to say that Vitali is a lesser puncher than Shavers despite having a higher KO%? No, it's a perfectly valid line of argument because the two things aren't inextricably related.

Likewise, arguing that Shavers was not as big a puncher as some of the other fighters I brought up due to the nature of his stoppages and his inability to put a lot of fighters away is valid as well.

When dealing with small degrees of difference it's necessary to 'nitpick' as you call it, else the whole thing become an overly simplified numbers game, which isn't really beneficial to Shavers either (see above).

There were about ten guys that made it through Tua's 50 wins, but supposedly all were slobbering messes that got knocked out with one shot? Come on mate, get real.

Never said that.

Having nearly every major fight of Tua's on vid and all his best KO's highlighted on youtube from early on will allow us to see all his best KO's.

Of Shavers' 80+ fights, how many have you seen? Five?

I've seen his fights vs: Ali, Holmes I & II, Norton, Lyle, Ellis, Quarry, Bugner, Williams, Berbick, Mercado, Cobb, Clark II, Smith and I think that's it.

Out of those few you found one single punch KO. Every one of Tua's best KO's is available on vid and his best single punch KO's are on highlight on youtube and you're arguing that Shavers didn't leave guys a slobbering mess like Tua did to everyone? You found, apart from the Ruiz fight, his best one punch KO. Shall I show you all the other fights where he knocked guys down, they got back and it ended with them either getting battered on the ropes, going back down again or the ref just stopping it?

Not sure why you keep insisting I said that everyone Tua fought was a slobbering mess. I said of those fighters he KDed most of them were not in a fit state to continue, a perfectly reasonable statement to make considering only one fighter that I know of (Barrett) ever made it to the finish line after getting knocked down by him. Sure he had his fair share of ref stoppages, as anyone tends to have, but he also has some incredible stoppages like Ruiz and Moorer that leave a lot of fighters like Shavers in the dust.

Arguing the way you are is the same as arguing that Hearns isn't one of the hardest punchers ever. Hey, most of his fights from early on are available to see on vid or youtube, and there aren't that many of his that are single punch KO's where the guy doesn't get back up. Clearly he doesn't hit as hard as people make out and is overrated. Same as Jackson. How many fights can you find where he lands one punch only and the guy is done for? Totally overrated.

Both Jackson and Hearns have some chilling one punch KOs, Jackson especially. Shavers doesn't have anything approaching Jackson Graham that I've seen. So no, I think their positions are justified.

Nitpicking that Shavers' KO of Norton is not indicative of his power is just bizarre. Tua lands a bunch of shots until he lands a perfect flush left hook that knocks out some dude. Shavers lands a bunch of glancing blows in which nearly every one looks like it clearly hurts Norton quite badly, then tags him with a shot that leaves him done for. This is Norton though. A great champion who got up from everything.

Uh, Cooney?

He got up from three straight open target flush uppercuts from George Foreman who put everything into them. It's not really comparable to knocking out some bum contender who got knocked out in nearly every one of his many losses. How many of those bum contender fights that Shavers won by one punch have we not seen? It's easy to find Tua's best KO's because he is a current fighter who has all of his fights on vid. You only see Shavers few biggest title shots and fights. But hey, here you go. All of Tua's best KO's including his two greatest single punch KOs.

Just look at all those one punch KOs and slobbering messes. An entire three of his best career highlight KOs here weren't able to get back up! Of the five Shavers fights you've seen, none equal any of those brutal ten count KO's, not a single TKO among them. Norton still got up after the first knockdown!

May I ask how many Shavers fights you've seen and against whom? You seem to be operating from a rather larger number than I am.