Greater RESUME/ATG RANKING; Floyd Jr. or Mike Tyson

[Doctor_Tenma]

Im amazed Tyson is leading the poll.

Just voted, saw the results, I'm freaking laughing here

[The Noose]

**looks around**

Really?

**scratches balls**

Yes really.

[Walt Liquor]

How Good Was/Is Mike Tyson?

By Frank Scoblete
30 January 2000

Now that Mike Tyson's career is almost over, it might be of interest to take a cold hard look at just how good he was at his best to get some idea of where he stands in the rankings of the great heavyweight champions.

It is not a stretch to say that much of the fearsome Tyson persona of a decade or more ago was media hype and was little related to what he actually accomplished in the ring or against whom he accomplished it.

We can make a case that Tyson fought "never-wases" and "nothing-lefters" in his early career culminating with his knockout over an intimidated former light-heavyweight champion Michael Spinks, whose only real claim to fame was "winning" two controversial decisions against an aging and distracted Larry Holmes.

Other than the light-hitting, terrified Spinks and the out-of-shape, intimidated, comebacking, former great Larry Holmes, who did Tyson actually fight in his pre-prison days who was truly any good in absolute terms? If we measure competition based on who Ali faced, then who of all Tyson's pre-prison opponents was as good as Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Ernie Shavers, Joe Bugner, Mac Foster, Floyd Patterson, Zora Foley, Cleveland Williams, Jimmy Ellis, Bob Foster or Ernie Terrell, not to mention the awesome likes of all-time greats Sonny Liston, George Foreman or Smokin' Joe Frazier? Would you classify Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker, Trevor Berbick or Frank Bruno with any those other fighters? Only if you never saw them fight!

The only real fight the pre-prison Tyson ever had was against the only decent heavyweight fighter he fought, a determined, well-conditioned Buster Douglas -- and Tyson was roundly beaten, battered and knocked out! That was Tyson in his prime, against a fighter who went on to "extinguish" himself by being knocked out in three rounds by Evander Holyfield.

If the pre-prison Tyson's boxing worth must be looked at with some skepticism, then the post-prison Tyson must be looked upon with scorn. Often in boxing, the true greatness of a fighter is not actually known when he is in his prime as he defeats opponent after opponent rather convincingly. It is only after he ages, slows down, and gets himself into wars are we aware of just how good the fighter is -- and was!

Certainly that was true of Ali. Before he made his comeback from an almost four-year forced layoff, there were all sorts of questions about his ability. Could he take a punch? Had he been beating up washed-up fighters? Did he have courage? Would he dog it if he were ever in a real fight? The layoff slowed Ali down, made him more vulnerable. What's more, great fighters appeared in that time, fighters better than any he had previously fought!

So a somewhat diminished Ali met each and every challenger -- starting with a comeback fight against highly ranked Jerry Quarry and then a second fight against vicious number-one contender Oscar Bonavena. His first career loss to Joe Frazier in his third comeback fight proved he could take a punch and that he had mountains of courage. That fight was the first of several "wars" Ali would fight in this second part of his career.

His next loss was to Ken Norton. Fighting 11 rounds with a broken jaw, Ali merely proved again that he was as courageous as any fighter who ever lived. His great victories against these very same fighters and his upset win over the god-like Foreman, showed what a great fighter he was -- and how much greater he had been before his layoff!

Not so with Tyson. His "layoff" was heralded with a return to the ring against a rank amateur, Peter McNeeley, whom Tyson "destroyed" with a wild flurry in round one. This same McNeeley was later knocked out by the bloated Butterbean in one round and has since lost just about every real fight he's had! And what of Buster Mathis, Jr., Bruce "I was knocked out by a gust of air" Seldon, Francois Botha, or Julian Francis? Are they credible opponents? Only if elephants can fly.

The only real fight the post-prison Tyson had of any significance was against Evander Holyfield, who was selected because he appeared to be a shot fighter, having lost two out of three to the disappointing Rid**** Bowe. Had Tyson known that Holyfield was not a shot fighter, but actually the only great heavyweight of the 1990s, I'm sure he would have selected a different fighter to beat, perhaps a third go-round with the overrated Razor Ruddock who proved himself a worthy Tyson contender by being knocked out in one round by the otherwise cautious Lennox Lewis.

So here we have a very simple yardstick for measuring the greatness of Mike Tyson. He fought two hard fights, one pre-prison and one post-prison -- both of which he lost (subsequently, he ate his way to a third loss and fouled himself into a no-decision). The rest of his victories, pre-prison and post-prison, were over fighters who couldn't make the "C" list during Ali's tenure. So where does that put him on the list of all-time greats?

It doesn't. He doesn't belong. He's not even in the top 20!

If you think of the very few good heavyweight fighters who have plied their trade in the late 1980s and 1990s, it is a short list: Evander Holyfield, George Foreman (oh, yes, the Big George who fought Holyfield would have rocked Iron Mike just as he did Smokin' Joe), Rid**** Bowe, and maybe Lennox Lewis and Michael Moorer. Tyson only fought one of them, and lost. The others he avoided.

I do not, as some writers do, lament the fact that Mike Tyson never lived up to his potential. In fact, I believe he did live up to it, fully, completely. His potential just wasn't all that great and that's what he became -- not all that great.


Floyd by a country mile its the media hype train that made Tyson great not his achievements in the ring

This clown said maaaybe Lennox Lewis, who had already beaten Evander.

[Toney616]

How Good Was/Is Mike Tyson?

By Frank Scoblete
30 January 2000

Now that Mike Tyson's career is almost over, it might be of interest to take a cold hard look at just how good he was at his best to get some idea of where he stands in the rankings of the great heavyweight champions.

It is not a stretch to say that much of the fearsome Tyson persona of a decade or more ago was media hype and was little related to what he actually accomplished in the ring or against whom he accomplished it.

We can make a case that Tyson fought "never-wases" and "nothing-lefters" in his early career culminating with his knockout over an intimidated former light-heavyweight champion Michael Spinks, whose only real claim to fame was "winning" two controversial decisions against an aging and distracted Larry Holmes.

Spinks won the first fight fair and square. He did get a gift in the 2nd fight though

Other than the light-hitting, terrified Spinks and the out-of-shape, intimidated, comebacking, former great Larry Holmes, who did Tyson actually fight in his pre-prison days who was truly any good in absolute terms?

He fought some decent fighters like Tucker, Ruddock I, Ruddock II, Smith

If we measure competition based on who Ali faced, then who of all Tyson's pre-prison opponents was as good as Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Ernie Shavers, Joe Bugner, Mac Foster, Floyd Patterson, Zora Foley, Cleveland Williams, Jimmy Ellis, Bob Foster or Ernie Terrell, not to mention the awesome likes of all-time greats Sonny Liston, George Foreman or Smokin' Joe Frazier? Would you classify Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker, Trevor Berbick or Frank Bruno with any those other fighters? Only if you never saw them fight!

No other hw can match up to Ali's resume, so its a very unfair comparison

The only real fight the pre-prison Tyson ever had was against the only decent heavyweight fighter he fought, a determined, well-conditioned Buster Douglas -- and Tyson was roundly beaten, battered and knocked out! That was Tyson in his prime, against a fighter who went on to "extinguish" himself by being knocked out in three rounds by Evander Holyfield.

Mitch Green, Ruddock I, Ruddock II, Tucker gave Tyson a hard fight as well. The writer is really trying to hard to put down Tyson's resume

If the pre-prison Tyson's boxing worth must be looked at with some skepticism, then the post-prison Tyson must be looked upon with scorn. Often in boxing, the true greatness of a fighter is not actually known when he is in his prime as he defeats opponent after opponent rather convincingly. It is only after he ages, slows down, and gets himself into wars are we aware of just how good the fighter is -- and was!

Certainly that was true of Ali. Before he made his comeback from an almost four-year forced layoff, there were all sorts of questions about his ability. Could he take a punch? Had he been beating up washed-up fighters? Did he have courage? Would he dog it if he were ever in a real fight? The layoff slowed Ali down, made him more vulnerable. What's more, great fighters appeared in that time, fighters better than any he had previously fought!

So a somewhat diminished Ali met each and every challenger -- starting with a comeback fight against highly ranked Jerry Quarry and then a second fight against vicious number-one contender Oscar Bonavena. His first career loss to Joe Frazier in his third comeback fight proved he could take a punch and that he had mountains of courage. That fight was the first of several "wars" Ali would fight in this second part of his career.

His next loss was to Ken Norton. Fighting 11 rounds with a broken jaw, Ali merely proved again that he was as courageous as any fighter who ever lived. His great victories against these very same fighters and his upset win over the god-like Foreman, showed what a great fighter he was -- and how much greater he had been before his layoff!

You cannot find many other hws that can really compare to Ali in terms of resume, I understand the point he is trying to make but his trying to hard.

Not so with Tyson. His "layoff" was heralded with a return to the ring against a rank amateur, Peter McNeeley, whom Tyson "destroyed" with a wild flurry in round one. This same McNeeley was later knocked out by the bloated Butterbean in one round and has since lost just about every real fight he's had! And what of Buster Mathis, Jr., Bruce "I was knocked out by a gust of air" Seldon, Francois Botha, or Julian Francis? Are they credible opponents? Only if elephants can fly.

The only real fight the post-prison Tyson had of any significance was against Evander Holyfield, who was selected because he appeared to be a shot fighter, having lost two out of three to the disappointing Rid**** Bowe. Had Tyson known that Holyfield was not a shot fighter, but actually the only great heavyweight of the 1990s, I'm sure he would have selected a different fighter to beat, perhaps a third go-round with the overrated Razor Ruddock who proved himself a worthy Tyson contender by being knocked out in one round by the otherwise cautious Lennox Lewis.

So here we have a very simple yardstick for measuring the greatness of Mike Tyson. He fought two hard fights, one pre-prison and one post-prison -- both of which he lost (subsequently, he ate his way to a third loss and fouled himself into a no-decision). The rest of his victories, pre-prison and post-prison, were over fighters who couldn't make the "C" list during Ali's tenure. So where does that put him on the list of all-time greats?

It doesn't. He doesn't belong. He's not even in the top 20!

Post prison he was only fighting for money and I agree he really hurt his legacy with his post prison antics.

If you think of the very few good heavyweight fighters who have plied their trade in the late 1980s and 1990s, it is a short list: Evander Holyfield, George Foreman (oh, yes, the Big George who fought Holyfield would have rocked Iron Mike just as he did Smokin' Joe), Rid**** Bowe, and maybe Lennox Lewis and Michael Moorer. Tyson only fought one of them, and lost. The others he avoided.

Lewis was offered a career high purse of 10m and turned it down.
Bowe would of been involved in the career ending fights with Golota
Evander he fought him twice
Moorer, Foreman?: When could these fights have happened?

I do not, as some writers do, lament the fact that Mike Tyson never lived up to his potential. In fact, I believe he did live up to it, fully, completely. His potential just wasn't all that great and that's what he became -- not all that great.

lol
Dude goes to prison for 3 years, loses his adopted father and trusted manager, gets railroaded by King, but apart from all of that he lived up to his absolute potential? The writer doesn't know what his talking about

Floyd by a country mile its the media hype train that made Tyson great not his achievements in the ring

A Lewis fan putting down Tyson? Lets look at Lewis resume

Lewis resume:
Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson
David Tua
Evander Holyfield
Ray Mercer
Frank Bruno
Tony Tucker
Donovan Ruddock

If Tyson was a overrated hype train then you have to take Tyson off Lewis resume and all of the opponents Tyson also beat. hence Lewis is left with:

Lewis resume:
Vitali Klitschko
David Tua
Evander Holyfield
Ray Mercer

You cannot put down Tyson's resume without putting down Lewis's resume

[Spit Dialect]

The reality is, both Lewis and Tyson's resume's weren't very good because heavyweight boxing in that time wasn't very good, hasn't been good since.

For the people who voted Tyson, I really can't get the words to describe how foolish that really is. I think Tyson was a beast as far as power and marketability but he is just not close to Floyd in the all time rankings.

I guess this poll should have been re named, who do you like more, tyson or floyd? Because it's turned into a popularity contest, no self respecting boxing fan can seriously put tyson over floyd.

[Toney616]

The reality is, both Lewis and Tyson's resume's weren't very good because heavyweight boxing in that time wasn't very good, hasn't been good since.

60's-70's was the golden age for the hw division.

For the people who voted Tyson, I really can't get the words to describe how foolish that really is. I think Tyson was a beast as far as power and marketability but he is just not close to Floyd in the all time rankings.

I completely agree

I guess this poll should have been re named, who do you like more, tyson or floyd? Because it's turned into a popularity contest, no self respecting boxing fan can seriously put tyson over floyd.

Good point

[RubenSonny]

Spinks won the first fight fair and square. He did get a gift in the 2nd fight though

He fought some decent fighters like Tucker, Ruddock I, Ruddock II, Smith

No other hw can match up to Ali's resume, so its a very unfair comparison

Mitch Green, Ruddock I, Ruddock II, Tucker gave Tyson a hard fight as well. The writer is really trying to hard to put down Tyson's resume

You cannot find many other hws that can really compare to Ali in terms of resume, I understand the point he is trying to make but his trying to hard.

Post prison he was only fighting for money and I agree he really hurt his legacy with his post prison antics.

Lewis was offered a career high purse of 10m and turned it down.
Bowe would of been involved in the career ending fights with Golota
Evander he fought him twice
Moorer, Foreman?: When could these fights have happened?

lol
Dude goes to prison for 3 years, loses his adopted father and trusted manager, gets railroaded by King, but apart from all of that he lived up to his absolute potential? The writer doesn't know what his talking about

A Lewis fan putting down Tyson? Lets look at Lewis resume

Lewis resume:
Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson
David Tua
Evander Holyfield
Ray Mercer
Frank Bruno
Tony Tucker
Donovan Ruddock

If Tyson was a overrated hype train then you have to take Tyson off Lewis resume and all of the opponents Tyson also beat. hence Lewis is left with:

Lewis resume:
Vitali Klitschko
David Tua
Evander Holyfield
Ray Mercer

You cannot put down Tyson's resume without putting down Lewis's resume

Excellent response.

[Toney616]

Excellent response.

Thanks

[prinzemanspopa]

Tyson is one of the elite great's in the heavyweight division's history,and Mayweather has never come close to clearing a division the way Tyson did during his first reign as heavyweight champion,but Mayweather has accomplished more,and has beaten superior opposition overall - over a longer period,too - in his career than Tyson has.

[bojangles1987]

I guess this poll truly shows us the hate the people have on this site for Floyd Mayweather Jr.