Martinez Belongs at 168

[THe TRiNiTY]

Martinez can definitely fight in a super middleweight instead of calling Pac. if he is really that good why not? why calling smaller guys if he really want to become a p4p he should call out bigger guys.

Martinez is more of a 154 pounder than he is a 160 pounder. Nonetheless, he's small at Middleweight, regardless. The best have always been willing to move up. Not saying Mayweather or Pacquiao should. But, Leonard has done it. Robinson has done it. It's nothing new.

Martinez isn't forcing them to fight him. He's looking for big fights. No reason to move up. He'd be smaller and have to deal with less money just to move up. Manny moved up for more money. Martinez would be moving up for less money and fighting tough guys at that. Makes no sense.

[Mayabang]

Martinez can definitely fight in a super middleweight instead of calling Pac. if he is really that good why not? why calling smaller guys if he really want to become a p4p he should call out bigger guys.

only one reason why..MONEY. I can't blame Sergio either, he's 36 years and not getting any younger. Besides, he deserves that big money after his recent performances. Unfortunately for him a Pac/May will never happen - Sergio will kill both.

[Khmelnytsky]

I don't believe that for a second.

They weighed both fighters tonight and reported the weights on the telecast. Martinez was 172 tonight. To say he is a SMW is just ******. Stop talking ******.

I provided a link. He was 176 at the 30 day weigh in vs Williams II and 173 at the 30 day weigh in for Dzinziruk.

176 is with clothes on and probably after a meal.

This is a typical super middleweight fight.

[IMG]http://i132.***********.com/albums/q34/michaelbonney1984/PavlikvsMartinezButevsMirandaOSI-5.jpg[/IMG]


12-15 pounds heavier than Martinez. If you're okay with that weight difference, then you should have no problem with that type of weight difference between Pac and Martinez.

Bute is the biggest SMW along with Dirrell.

Part of my point is to highlight the hypocrisy of Martinez. He says he's too small for SMW yet calls Pac out (who is at more of a size disadvantage vs him than Sergio would be vs SMW's)

I have no FN weights for Froch or Kessler and there are no height classes in boxing but take Andrade, he was 185 against Bute in their rematch.

This leads me to believe its typical for SMWs to rehydrate to the low-mid 180s.

Froch Ward AA i doubt get to the 180's. Kessler perhaps Bute and Dirrell 182,183 yeah. Martinez would be at least 176-179 so where is the discrepancy?

Taking the biggest weight difference scenario possible Bute 182 vs Martinez 176. That isn't doable but a blown up 148 Pacquiao eating 7 meals a day vs Martinez who is at least 25lbs heavier is fine for in Sergio's eyes?

I love Martinez but honestly that makes him look like a b1tch.

This is the main message that most are overlooking in my initial post

There is young talent and Martinez needs to fight MW's like Pirog, Golovkin, N'jikam who are deserving and i do think would be able to test him. He probably won't want to though because there isn't money in it.

If not that then move up to SMW where he can get quality fights and money because he certianly is not undersized. I don't want to see him fight MW guys like Chavez or Lee who may have a little name recognition but are 2 or 3 classes below him

He can make and fight MW but if he's going to ignore the best compitition there because he wants money then go to SMW don't fight guys like Chavez and Lee.

I you don't weigh 180+ on fight night, than you shouldn't be a SMW. You should move down to MW. The guy who started this thread has no clue.

the 10lbs is a general rule of thumb yes but alot of Europeans and Asians hardly cut any weight. Generally Americans are big cutters sometimes insane amounts like 20 or more lbs. The fact that you don't realize this shows that you don't have a clue. Same thing in MMA.

[Heru]

Perfect logic for these fools.

Martinez "walks around at 180 easy", so he should move up another division in the same fiscal year, where the fighters walk around in the 190s and 200s, and rehydrate to the 180s.

Pacquiao isn't really a lightweight, he's a welterweight because that's where he fights (made too much sense?), when he decides that he wants to work his way down to 135 to fight at lightweight again, people can call him a lightweight. Until then, he's a welterweight, a strong one at that (how many fighters have forced Cotto on the back foot?), same way Martinez is a middleweight (not a very strong one either, despite his physique, he couldn't push Pavlik, Williams, or Dzinzurik backward).

[Bierstadt]

I agree somewhat. He shouldn't be calling out Pacquiao and Mayweather for the same reason that people say he shouldn't move up in weight. I like Martinez, but am losing a little respect with all this talk of fighting Welterweights who would look like children next to him. If I were him, the thought that such a fight is a possibility wouldn't even cross my mind. Competing against 168 pounders is much more realistic. If anything, he's bigger than Abraham, who had campaigned at middleweight for most of his career. So there is an interesting match up that can happen.


And one thing people here seem to ignore is that super middleweights rehydrate to ~180 after weighing in a 168, while Martinez weighs less on fight night because he's re hydrating from 160. With the right diet he can easily make 168 his natural weight, he's got the frame for it. I wouldn't be surprised if he's had to drain himself to make the 154 limit in the past.

[.::|ULTIMATE|::.]

Martinez and Mayweather are actually the same size but Martinez has had to bulk up to make the higher weights.

[THe TRiNiTY]

I agree somewhat. He shouldn't be calling out Pacquiao and Mayweather for the same reason that people say he shouldn't move up in weight. I like Martinez, but am losing a little respect with all this talk of fighting Welterweights who would look like children next to him. If I were him, the thought that such a fight is a possibility wouldn't even cross my mind. Competing against 168 pounders is much more realistic. If anything, he's bigger than Abraham, who had campaigned at middleweight for most of his career. So there is an interesting match up that can happen.


And one thing people here seem to ignore is that super middleweights rehydrate to ~180 after weighing in a 168, while Martinez weighs less on fight night because he's re hydrating from 160. With the right diet he can easily make 168 his natural weight, he's got the frame for it. I wouldn't be surprised if he's had to drain himself to make the 154 limit in the past.

The problem isn't just the weight. It's how you carry it and how well you can maintain your skill set. He'd lose a bit of speed and would have to carry more weight in the fight. He'd probably lose some power, as well. Not to mention that these guys are used to 168 pounds for the most part.

Whereas, Martinez is 36 years old and is looking for the money fights. 168 doesn't have the money that Floyd and Manny bring. He's not forcing them to fight him. He just thinks that it would be good business.

Smaller guys move up to Middleweight all the time. They don't have to. He's moved up to 160 to take the Middleweight title from Pavlik, after a fight with Williams and a big win over Williams in the rematch. Not to mention the Cintron fight he was robbed in and now the Dzinzurik destruction. I think if one fighter deserves a payday, it's this guy.

[Khmelnytsky]

Not sure where some of you guys get your facts from, but Froch is pretty easily the biggest fighter at 168.

Perfect logic for these fools.

Martinez "walks around at 180 easy", so he should move up another division in the same fiscal year, where the fighters walk around in the 190s and 200s, and rehydrate to the 180s.

Pacquiao isn't really a lightweight, he's a welterweight because that's where he fights (made too much sense?), when he decides that he wants to work his way down to 135 to fight at lightweight again, people can call him a lightweight. Until then, he's a welterweight, a strong one at that (how many fighters have forced Cotto on the back foot?), same way Martinez is a middleweight (not a very strong one either, despite his physique, he couldn't push Pavlik, Williams, or Dzinzurik backward).

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content9124.html

Ward " I don't have to cut weight or do anything drastic"

I can't find it for Froch because it was video (Maybe the Fight360 episodes) but he said the same thing. He walks around in the low 170's and hardly cuts any weight.

AA is a smaller MW than Martinez

So there is half the Super 6 that is Martinez's size.

Kessler doesn't look any bigger than Froch or Ward

Bute and Dirrell are essentialy LHW as i have said

[THe TRiNiTY]

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content9124.html

Ward " I don't have to cut weight or do anything drastic"

I can't find it for Froch because it was video (Maybe the Fight360 episodes) but he said the same thing. He walks around in the low 170's and hardly cuts any weight.

AA is a smaller MW than Martinez

So there is half the Super 6 that is Martinez's size.

Kessler doesn't look any bigger than Froch or Ward

Bute and Dirrell are essentialy LHW as i have said

Then answer this... if Mayweather and Pacquiao can go for the money fights, why can't Martinez? They had advantages going into their big money fights. Why can't Martinez? He's getting up their and wants to go out with a big **** like they do. Why can't Martinez?

Theoretically, he could go up to 168. But, he'd be a shell of himself. He'd lose his snap, he'd get winded with the new weight and would have to take a bigger shot then he's used to. Williams dropped him, Dzinziruk buckled him. Why should he risk it at this point? He's earned the right like the other big names in the sport to try and get paid.

[joelab75]

The problem isn't just the weight. It's how you carry it and how well you can maintain your skill set. He'd lose a bit of speed and would have to carry more weight in the fight. He'd probably lose some power, as well. Not to mention that these guys are used to 168 pounds for the most part.

Whereas, Martinez is 36 years old and is looking for the money fights. 168 doesn't have the money that Floyd and Manny bring. He's not forcing them to fight him. He just thinks that it would be good business.

Smaller guys move up to Middleweight all the time. They don't have to. He's moved up to 160 to take the Middleweight title from Pavlik, after a fight with Williams and a big win over Williams in the rematch. Not to mention the Cintron fight he was robbed in and now the Dzinzurik destruction. I think if one fighter deserves a payday, it's this guy.

so you trying to defend Sergio going up in 168 lbs but not Pac? Pac had no business above 147 lbs but Sergio calling him out to fight him in 154 lbs?

isnt that suppose to make him GREAT though fighting bigger guys? prove that he is a worthy of p4p number 1? if you think Sergio is too small in a super middleweight we should know that Pac is way to small in 154 lbs because we saw him fighting above 147 lbs and he looks really small compare to Marg.