Official: Sergio Martinez-Sergiy Dzinziruk and undercards discussion thread

[Power VCT]

Boxing Results

March 12
Sergio Martinez TKO 8 Sergiy Dzinziruk
Andy Lee KO 10 Craig McEwan
Javier Fortuna KO 8 Derrick Wilson
Miguel Cotto TKO 12 Ricardo Mayorga
Miguel Vazquez W 12 Leonardo Zappavigna
Pawel Wolak TKO 6 Yuri Foreman
Matt Korobov TKO 1 Michael Walker
Tommy Zbikowski KO 1 Richard Bryant
Ricky Burns TKO 7 Joseph Laryea
James DeGale TKO 5 Alpay Kobal
Jonathan Barros W 12 Miguel Roman
Robbie Bryant W 12 Togasilimai Letoa

March 11
Michael Grant KO 3 Tye Fields
Joel Casamayor W 10 Manuel Leyva
Aaron Williams TKO 1 Shane Steele
Ulises Lopez W DQ 3 Carlos Vilches
Sebastian Lujan TKO 4 Juan Lucero
Rachid El Hadak W 12 Levan Jomardashvili
Salim Larbi W 12 David Makaradze
Daniel Estrada W Tech Dec 7 Arturo Gomez
Gamaliel Diaz TKO 3 Rafael Urias
Mariana Juarez W 10 Simona Galassi
Mateusz Masternak TKO 5 Ali Ismailov
Dmitry Sukhotsky TKO 5 Konstantin Piternov
Vyacheslav Gusev KO 3 Feliciano Ledesma
Roman Simakov W 12 Douglas Otieno

[duwdu]

Pavlik was nowhere near as good as Cotto P4P, especially after the long lay-off and all the injuries. And he is the only Middleweight Martinez has ever fought. And his win over Pavlik was nowhere near as decisive as Pac's over Cotto.

Cotto was already severely damaged goods form his blow-out in the hands of Margarito the penultimate fight before Pac whooped him. In fact, commentators were repeatedly asking Cotto before the fight whether he thought he had sufficiently recovered from the Margarito beat down to be able to take on Pacman. On fight night, the Sky commentators expressed the same sentiments. And of course Pacman was the clear favorite going into the fight. What's the greatness in such a victory by Pacman?

P34c3

[duwdu]

He is the World Middleweight champion. To be a great champion you have to fight the top fighters in your weight class. But he doesn't want to do that, which devalues his title.

P4P is a fantasy game it's not a weight class. Great champions want to fight fighters there own size or bigger, not much smaller men.

And you know damn well that both Pac's and Floyd's fights at 154 were bullshit cherry picking fights and that neither have the frame to be real Jr Middleweights, still less Middleweights, especially Pac - whereas Martinez has the frame to be a genuine Middleweight now. Floyd started at Super Featherweight, Pac at Flyweight, Martinez at Welterweight. Martinez fights at 170lb on fight night, Floyd and Pac fight at less than 150lb.

Plus great fighters don't call out fighters from much lower weight classes, only playground bullies do that.

What is it with this lame argument that Martinez can weigh 170? All that is needed to make the fight is that they both agree to weigh not more than 150, which Martinez has clearly stated he would concede to. And for the up-tenth time, weight categories are determined by exactly that - by weight, not by body frame. Some folks would go to any length to make excuses. Sheesh.

P34c3

[Dave Rado]

Unfortunately, the major thrust of your argument falls flat on its face if they agree to fight at 150 (as Martinez has categorically stated he would) or even less.

P34c3

Then it would be a meaningless fight because Martinez would be weight drained. When the World Middleweight champion has no interest in fighting Middleweights, boxing is in a bad way.

[Dave Rado]

What is it with this lame argument that Martinez can weigh 170?

Are you seriously dis*****g that that is what he weighed on fight night???

All that is needed to make the fight is that they both agree to weigh not more than 150, which Martinez has clearly stated he would concede to.

Which would make it a bullshit fight because Martinez would be weight drained. And if any title was on the line it would be even more bullshit.

Funny how everyone criticised Pac for his bullshit catchweight fights up to now but all of a sudden they want him to fight at a bullshit catchweight now.

Martinez shouldn't be fighting at 150 when he's the world Middleweight champion. He should be cleaning up his division. Or he should give up his title.

And for the up-tenth time, weight categories are determined by exactly that - by weight, not by body frame

Weight categories are determined by weight, and a given fighter's peak weight category is determined by his frame. Goodness don't you have a brain? Hence Marquez was Pac's nemesis at Super Featherweight and below, but is far less effective above Lightweight, because his frame doesn't allow him to carry the extra weight, whereas Pac's frame allows him to carry more weight than Marquez without losing effectiveness.

[Dave Rado]

Cotto was already severely damaged goods form his blow-out in the hands of Margarito

The severely damaged goods as you call him is currently ranked #3 at Jr Middleweight by The Ring and has just knocked out Mayorga in style. Pavlik was far more damaged by Hopkins.

[duwdu]

If weighing 144 on fight night makes him a natural Welterweight, then Cotto was a natural Middleweight when they fought each other, and Clottey and Marg were natural Super Middleweights. You can't pretend that this is still the era of weigh-ins just before the fight when it comes to Pac, but not when it comes to his opponents - that's ridiculous cherry picking. Pac's fight night weight has been 15-20lb lower than that of his opponents in every fight since he moved to Welterweight. Even Hatton outweighed him by nearly 10lb on fight night.

You didn't prove your argument conclusively - you should have stated what you knew Pac and Cotto weighed on their fight night. I know for sure though, that Michael Buffer announced their weigh-ins as Pac-144, Cotto-145.

BTW, whose fault is it if Pac claims he cannot hydrate as much as some of his opponents anyways? The modern rule of the beautiful science allows for hydration overnight, that's just the way it is, so deal with it (unless it is expressly forbidden by a contract I suppose?) You can't just chose and pick which rules are good for Pac.

P34c3

[duwdu]

Then it would be a meaningless fight because Martinez would be weight drained. When the World Middleweight champion has no interest in fighting Middleweights, boxing is in a bad way.

You're just second-guessing the fight with the "meaningless fight" statement. And the fact that Martinez wants to fight Pac at the weight Pac had previously fought in, doesn't mean he (Martinez) is not interested in other MWs; or have you read/heard him say so?

P34c3

[duwdu]

Are you seriously dis*****g that that is what he weighed on fight night???



Which would make it a bullshit fight because Martinez would be weight drained. And if any title was on the line it would be even more bullshit.

Funny how everyone criticised Pac for his bullshit catchweight fights up to now but all of a sudden they want him to fight at a bullshit catchweight now.

Martinez shouldn't be fighting at 150 when he's the world Middleweight champion. He should be cleaning up his division. Or he should give up his title.



Weight categories are determined by weight, and a given fighter's peak weight category is determined by his frame. Goodness don't you have a brain? Hence Marquez was Pac's nemesis at Super Featherweight and below, but is far less effective above Lightweight, because his frame doesn't allow him to carry the extra weight, whereas Pac's frame allows him to carry more weight than Marquez without losing effectiveness.

We've seen many bs fights before, and this wouln't be the last one either, but at least we would know for real who whoops the other at a common weight.

FYI, fighters can fight OUTSIDE their titles if there's demand for it, for as long as it does not go against the rule of the commission whose title they hold. It's called entertainment.

Your frame/weight argument is amusing, and I do have a brain. The fact that Marquez was not effective against Mayweather doesn't prove jack s%it, because Mayweather makes most everyone look like an amateur. The close-result nature of the Pac/Marquez fights is as a result of their skills levels, not because of their frames or the weights those frames carry, AND because styles make fights. See?

P34c3

[duwdu]

The severely damaged goods as you call him is currently ranked #3 at Jr Middleweight by The Ring and has just knocked out Mayorga in style. Pavlik was far more damaged by Hopkins.

That's the whole point - the Jr. MW class is far less attractive compared to the WW class, or even the Super MW class, atm.

Btw, let's see if and when Cotto agrees - or Bob Arum allows him - to fight Martinez at 154.

P34c3