Prince Naseem: hall of fame!

[paulf]

This shouldn't even be a discussion. What the Prince did for the lower weight classes as well as bringing attention to boxing in general is remarkable. Plus he defended his world titles over twenty times.

[cklmaced]

Create a new topic, and ask people if they have heard of Naseem Hamed.

I bet there would be more than 5% (as you say) from American who know who he is for a start..

Where are you from by the way?

I meant the general public for fcuk sake. Obviously on a boxing forum a lot of Amercians would know who he is. However EVERYBODY knows who Tyson is so you can't make ****** statements saying his impact is the same when clearly it isn't. Im not saying he had no impact but the way you make it out nobody had even heard of featherweight before Naz.

[IronDanHamza]

This shouldn't even be a discussion. What the Prince did for the lower weight classes as well as bringing attention to boxing in general is remarkable. Plus he defended his world titles over twenty times.

He defended his major Titles 15 times.

Which is a great accomplishment.

[UmarImranKhalil]

depends on where you're from.

in america, hamed's known less than over the sea

Uh,

Forget America, where he was merely well-known.

this is understandable, seeing as he's a british great

Uh,

Hamed was an international crossover superstar. Global. Maybe some people don't appreciate or weren't aware of this.

You're one of those 'some people'. Naz was a huge hit in many territories far away from the UK. Not just Arab territories, either.

The man was a bonafide Superstar. His impact was hugeeee.

Saying "wicked" every sentence doesn't count as charisma compared to Ali or Tyson he is nothing. He could just show boat better than most and when things didn't go his way he didn't have true determination. Plus showing off in your flash car like a fool and nearly getting people killed probably doesn't help your case of getting in either.

I didn't make any claims for eloquence or verbal charisma on Naz' part. 'Charisma' can be an aura, too, as it pretty much was for Tyson's early impact, the years that made his name, when it was all more about his brooding, malevolent ring presence than his crazy statements or out of ring behaviour.

Naz' road accident has nothing to do with his case for being in the boxing HOF. What are you on?

And he didn't say "wicked" every sentence. That's just you being a hating twat and making stuff up.

[UmarImranKhalil]

Yeah cos you say it, it must be true. Barry actually fought quite a pressure style like Barrera and how did Hamed fair against that?

Barrera didn't fight Hamed with pressure.


Also, Barrera is an ATG and he still only won 8-4 on a night when Naz was the worst prepared he'd ever been for the best opponent he'd ever faced. Far from the beatdown of myth and legend.

McGuigan isn't an ATG.


Hamed would have stretched him, had they been able to meet in their respective primes.




I agree, BTW, that Hamed lacked Ali's spoken charisma. It's unlikely there will ever be a man to pull on boxing gloves with more, or even near as much, personal charm as Ali.

Charisma isn't always spoken, though, and Naz' swag was a magnet; for adulation and antipathy, no matter, just a magnet -- something he shares with Ali.

No, I'm not suggesting Naz was possessed of Ali-level personal charm.Nor am I saying his fame is equal to Ali's in absolute terms.
But he was a bonafide global Superstar, with the eyes of the world watching for his next move -- unchartered territory for a little guy out of boxing at that time (and even now, being that Pacquiao's star outside of the PI has ascended more since his move out of the little-guy weights).

[KILLA RIGHT]

Naz>>Tyson

[cklmaced]

Barrera didn't fight Hamed with pressure.


Also, Barrera is an ATG and he still only won 8-4 on a night when Naz was the worst prepared he'd ever been for the best opponent he'd ever faced. Far from the beatdown of myth and legend.

McGuigan isn't an ATG.


Hamed would have stretched him, had they been able to meet in their respective primes.




I agree, BTW, that Hamed lacked Ali's spoken charisma. It's unlikely there will ever be a man to pull on boxing gloves with more, or even near as much, personal charm as Ali.

Charisma isn't always spoken, though, and Naz' swag was a magnet; for adulation and antipathy, no matter, just a magnet -- something he shares with Ali.

No, I'm not suggesting Naz was possessed of Ali-level personal charm.Nor am I saying his fame is equal to Ali's in absolute terms.
But he was a bonafide global Superstar, with the eyes of the world watching for his next move -- unchartered territory for a little guy out of boxing at that time (and even now, being that Pacquiao's star outside of the PI has ascended more since his move out of the little-guy weights).

No he wasn't a bonafide world star he was well known in boxing but I think me and you have different definations of global star. He actually wasn't that well liked in America when he went there. He was booed in the McCullough fight and generally performed poorly in the US bar the Kelly fight. He mainly relied on his reflexes which were amazing but he didn't have much of a back up plan if that didn't work.

[UmarImranKhalil]

I meant the general public for fcuk sake. Obviously on a boxing forum a lot of Amercians would know who he is. However EVERYBODY knows who Tyson is so you can't make ****** statements saying his impact is the same when clearly it isn't.

Can you only think in absolute terms, instead of appreciating the factors/nuances involved and considering the comparison in more equivalent terms?

An exciting heavyweight KO machine with an aura, the rare kind that Tyson was, will always hold that extra sensational edge over a small-guy equivalent, by definition, because the heavyweights are traditionally the marquee division of boxing; and Naz is the nearest to a Tyson equivalent the lower weights have ever had, not in boxing style, but in aura, global star-power and ability to excite.

Naseem Hamed broke ground and achieved a global superstardom that no fighter has ever achieved out of the featherweights, period. You're underestimating how big he was.

No he wasn't a bonafide world star he was well known in boxing but I think me and you have different definations of global star.

Then you really don't know what the **** you're talking about.


He was known and courted in America. But America is not the world, anyway. Nor is the UK, where Naz was, naturally, a huge star.

He was huge in many other territories.


You literally do not know what the **** you're talking about.

Just a jealous McGuigan fan, gotta be. LMAO.

Naz will be in the Hall. And higher up the FW ATG lists than McGuigan.

[cklmaced]

Can you only think in absolute terms, instead of appreciating the factors/nuances involved and considering the comparison in more equivalent terms?

An exciting heavyweight KO machine with an aura, the rare kind that Tyson was, will always hold that extra sensational edge over a small-guy equivalent, by definition, because the heavyweights are traditionally the marquee division of boxing; and Naz is the nearest to a Tyson equivalent the lower weights have ever had, not in boxing style, but in aura, global star-power and ability to excite.

Naseem Hamed broke ground and achieved a global superstardom that no fighter has ever achieved out of the featherweights, period. You're underestimating how big he was.






Then you really don't know what the **** you're talking about.


He was known and courted in America. But America is not the world, anyway. Nor is the UK, where Naz was, naturally, a huge star.

He was huge in many other territories.


You literally do not know what the **** you're talking about.

Just a jealous McGuigan fan, gotta be. LMAO.

Naz will be in the Hall. And higher up the FW ATG lists than McGuigan.

I know it wasn't you but someone actually did say he was as big as Tyson. He was big but quickly forgotton by better fighters who had classic bouts Barrera and Morales. Once Barrera beat him many realised he was not so much over hyped but over-rated.

He isn't really remembered which true stars are he may have been popular for a while but that faded away. Why would I be jealous of Naz who isn't in the HOF I think its the other way around LOL. Plus Naz never beat any other HOFs and retired once is aura was exposed by Barrera.

[UmarImranKhalil]

I know it wasn't you but someone actually did say he was as big as Tyson. He was big but quickly forgotton by better fighters who had classic bouts Barrera and Morales. Once Barrera beat him many realised he was not so much over hyped but over-rated.

He isn't really remembered which true stars are he may have been popular for a while but that faded away. Why would I be jealous of Naz who isn't in the HOF I think its the other way around LOL. Plus Naz never beat any other HOFs and retired once is aura was exposed by Barrera.

You're mixing up your arguments.

Barrera and Morales will rank higher in the estimations of boxing historians and hardcore fans, surely. We're discussing Hamed's cultural impact, though, and neither of those men transcended boxing like Nazzy did. I'm not saying that to suggest that Hamed should be ranked higher than either, I'm just stating a fact apropos of the subject of 'impact' being raised.


In absolute terms, Hamed's fame was not quite as great as Tyson's. But can you imagine any featherweight in the future being able to get as close?

Europe, Asia and the Middle East are vast territories, and Hamed was a star across them. There's no doubt that he was in his own rarified territory.


And people will make arguments for Tyson being overrated, too, BTW. Another guy who let his game slide in his youth, paid for it with sobering exposure and was never able to fully recoup.

Few go as head-spinningly high as those guys did without some kind of fall.


Hamed is very much remembered, both by the casual public and by fight-fans who miss what he brought to the table (even many who hated him at the time).


I say jealous because you know that Hamed 1) achieved an impact way beyond anything McGuigan ever registered and 2) will be remembered as the Greater of the two. The HOF is just a formality to come.