Manny versus duran at 140??

[fcastro1]

I have no problem with someone picking Pac if they had reasonable justifications, reducing this sport to a game of top trumps and choosing the fighter they really really like doesn't cut it with me. I wouldn't call Floyd a classic counter-puncher either and I'd say Duran has greater skills than both Floyd and Marquez.

i dont think duran has better ring generalship than floyd or is a better counterpuncher than marquez. what we do know from past fights is that pac is susceptible to counter punching style. Duran has good all round skills and can pretty much do anything in the ring but he is not primarily a counterpuncher. duran is a fighter. considering this fact and the fact he had problems with srl speed i would have to give pac a great chance of beating duran. im not saying its a certainty but its definitely a possibility.

[intoccabile]

i dont think duran has better ring generalship than floyd or is a better counterpuncher than marquez. what we do know from past fights is that pac is susceptible to counter punching style. Duran has good all round skills and can pretty much do anything in the ring but he is not primarily a counterpuncher. duran is a fighter. considering this fact and the fact he had problems with srl speed i would have to give pac a great chance of beating duran. im not saying its a certainty but its definitely a possibility.

I think he's a much better counter puncher than Marquez. The majority of durans counters came off slipping, creating misses and great timing.

Marquez on the other hand is a return fire counter puncher. He doesn't exactly make you miss or do anything fancy, he usually gets hit before responding. He always returns fire.

One of the reasons he is so effective against Pacman. As i stated previously - pacmans strength is to be First and Last. Marquez though, is great at being last.. So whatever pacman started, Marquez would finish.

And it's like that with everyone Marquez fights. His toughest fights are against men who also prefer to be last - it then forces marquez to be first or never gives him a chance to do what he likes to do.

With that said ^ it's reasons like this that regardless of weight, Floyd would always outclass Marquez (or out style.. since he is the more stubborn of the two and will do nothing unless Marquez initiates).

That said.. the 'better' counter puncher is more than just what meets the eye. I'd say in the arguement of Floyd, Duran, and JMM.. Floyd is the more "skillful' counter puncher of the 3. The "better" counter puncher would be Duran.

To me "better" means who is the most effective, as they all have different ways of being second (or last) and returning fire. One doesn't like to be hit. One likes to engage, force exchanges then capitalize on mistakes. And the other likes to be a target, and return fire.. finishing all exchanges.

I'm actually convincing myself that Marquez is the superior of the 2 here, now that I think about it. As his return fire style is suitable for many styles and he doesn't have a problem long, mid, or close range.

I do think Durans willingness to engage and react accordingly in the inside is impressive though. Although they look entirely different in what they do, I like to think only James Toneys inside countering game rivaled a prime Durans. Holyfield was impressive inside as well, at countering.

[RubenSonny]

I think he's a much better counter puncher than Marquez. The majority of durans counters came off slipping, creating misses and great timing.

Marquez on the other hand is a return fire counter puncher. He doesn't exactly make you miss or do anything fancy, he usually gets hit before responding. He always returns fire.

One of the reasons he is so effective against Pacman. As i stated previously - pacmans strength is to be First and Last. Marquez though, is great at being last.. So whatever pacman started, Marquez would finish.

And it's like that with everyone Marquez fights. His toughest fights are against men who also prefer to be last - it then forces marquez to be first or never gives him a chance to do what he likes to do.

With that said ^ it's reasons like this that regardless of weight, Floyd would always outclass Marquez (or out style.. since he is the more stubborn of the two and will do nothing unless Marquez initiates).

That said.. the 'better' counter puncher is more than just what meets the eye. I'd say in the arguement of Floyd, Duran, and JMM.. Floyd is the more "skillful' counter puncher of the 3. The "better" counter puncher would be Duran.

To me "better" means who is the most effective, as they all have different ways of being second (or last) and returning fire. One doesn't like to be hit. One likes to engage, force exchanges then capitalize on mistakes. And the other likes to be a target, and return fire.. finishing all exchanges.

I'm actually convincing myself that Marquez is the superior of the 2 here, now that I think about it. As his return fire style is suitable for many styles and he doesn't have a problem long, mid, or close range.

I do think Durans willingness to engage and react accordingly in the inside is impressive though. Although they look entirely different in what they do, I like to think only James Toneys inside countering game rivaled a prime Durans. Holyfield was impressive inside as well, at countering.

Excellent post green on the way.

[joelab75]

both ATG's. both are very good in the ring. both has power. its a fantasy fight. its anybody's ball game. Duran beat SLR. SLR was almost a complete fighter and we all cannot say the same with Duran.

SUPERIOR boxing ability DOESNT ALWAYS WIN. Technical boxer doesnt always come out the winner. in paper or fantasy fight they always win. in real boxing match they dont.

We all saw what happen to Rios and Acosta. Acosta was a pretty good technical boxer, if anyone disagree is ****** or havent seen Acosta fight. Acosta was a good technical boxer and almost as slick as Floyd with power, handspeed and a quick feet. but he lost to a come forward fighter with no defense, no head movement, no handspeed, no footwork just relentless pressure.

[intoccabile]

both ATG's. both are very good in the ring. both has power. its a fantasy fight. its anybody's ball game. Duran beat SLR. SLR was almost a complete fighter and we all cannot say the same with Duran.

SUPERIOR boxing ability DOESNT ALWAYS WIN. Technical boxer doesnt always come out the winner. in paper or fantasy fight they always win. in real boxing match they dont.

We all saw what happen to Rios and Acosta. Acosta was a pretty good technical boxer, if anyone disagree is ****** or havent seen Acosta fight. Acosta was a good technical boxer and almost as slick as Floyd with power, handspeed and a quick feet. but he lost to a come forward fighter with no defense, no head movement, no handspeed, no footwork just relentless pressure.

From the opening bell acosta seemed nervous and just almost afraid Rios in spots. He let off a lot of nervous energy early and his posture and disposition just screamed "nerves". He looked a lot like herbie hide for the first 3 rounds. See Hide/Bowe and you'll know EXACTLY what I mean.

There was a time when he found his mark though and got very comfortable. Began walking Rios down with power shots and not retreating anymore. That poise is what I'm use to seeing from him on both the offensive and defensive. I don't think he was every comfortable in there with Rios for whatever reason.