Comments Thread For: Marquez Deserves The Pacquiao Fight, Not Shane Mosley

[Rome-By-Ko]

Hold on mate.

P4P consideration has absolutely nothing to do with how many P4P fighters either guy may have fought. It has nothing to do with titles, it has nothing to do with belts, and it has absolutely nothing to do with common opponents.

P4P is based on the latin phrase " caeteris paribus " which loosely translated means..... " if all things were equal ".

The "equal" in boxing, is weight.

FACT: At 126, Marquez' ONLY prime weight, he beats Manny 9/10 at least, because of the reasons stated above.

If you intend to make a fair comparision ABOVE 126, then you must factor in Marquez' size, otherwise you are comparing apples with oranges.

e.g. IF Marquez was NATURALLY Cotto's size/weight (so, takes his speed up, and his power is increased relatively to his size) he beats him hands down.

Against Margarito, if Marquez were 5'10"-150lbs.....
then he retires that bum, be under no illusions.

The way folks talk about P4P, is simply innaccurate.

The following is far more relevant, and imo, categorically proves that Marquez is a better fighter hands down than Manny.....

1.) In the first fight, Manny got off to a great start and knocked JMM down three times in the first round and broke his nose, and yet STILL couldn't beat him. Why is that? Because Marquez is hands down the better fighter.

2.) In the second fight, when Marquez was 35yo, past-prime, and above his career-best weight, he beat Manny fair-and-square, the entire developed world saw it. You can disagree with me because of the official result and we will simply agree to disagree, but romey, watch that fight again, look at the faces of both fighters before the winner was announced. Manny knows he lost that fight, which is why he will not rematch that old age pensioner unless it is at 147.

3.) He went up 4 divisions higher than his career-best weight to fight the very best P4P fighter on the planet, and yet Manny will not even fight somebody from his own division without a catch-weight.

Sorry buddy, but it's not even really that close as far as I'm concerned.

Another thing, admittedly off-topic from the P4P issue.....

If we were to remove every controversial fight from Manny's resume', and then do the same with Marquez'..... how do you think their resume's would match-up ?

Sorry for taking so long, it's 11.56am here, I'm at work I'll write when I can.

No biggie Lead,write when ya can..But I have to disagree again,I'm not saying your wrong with ya break down of the P4P list..But too say you can't take into account a fighter who beats other fighters on the P4P list is crazy..If there was a fighter who beat three P4P ranked fighters he would undoubtedly be the num one fighter in the world are at least close to it..Beating P4P fighters mean something it's not the be all end all but it does mean something..

TBH I had Pac winning both fights,They were close but I had him winning both..He was coming forward and landing clean shots,like in any close fight if someone said they seen it another way I would not be mad..But you are saying he is far more skilled which I don't agree with,Maybe at 126lb when Pac was very wild and also a one handed fighter..Pac in their second fight was much more controlled and had two hand and use both of umm too win that fight...Pac has now become even better then when they last met very bad ending and beating in this fight for Marquez imo..

e.g. IF Marquez was NATURALLY Cotto's size/weight (so, takes his speed up, and his power is increased relatively to his size) he beats him hands down.

Pac is not the same size as Cotto,or Marga's??Yet Pac beats the hell out of both of umm..Bottomline Marquez wants to play with the big boys bring ya azz on up here then..

[-Antonio-]

There are three explanations for why JMM is being black balled.

1) He's a GBP fighter. Arum is as equally ****ish as GB and most promoters are. He doesn't like to do business with them.

2) He really IS the hardest fight for Manny outside of Floyd regardless of weight, because he's a counterpunching wizard who has already solved the Pacquiao puzzle

3) JMM got beaten so soundly by Floyd that any bit of vulnerability even an 8-4 type of win, would effect the perception of how Manny would do against Floyd.

I didn't read the article, but those are the reasons. They have to be...

I think it's a little of all three. Sadly JMM is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now if he gets on his high horse again and starts demanding steroid tests then it's a different story...

[komandante]

Marquez did not win a single round with Floyd and was toy'd and schooled the whole fight. He lost legitimacy to earned a 3rd fight with Pac.

[GRUSTLER]

Marquez did not win a single round with Floyd and was toy'd and schooled the whole fight. He lost legitimacy to earned a 3rd fight with Pac.

Ok, but Cotto, who struggled and could have lost against Clottey
didn't deserve it. What about Margarito who got caught cheating
and KO'd in the same night? He DEFINITELY didn't deserve it.
Clottey and now Mosley don't deserve the fight with Pac. If
anything Marquez does have a legitimate claim to get in the
ring with Manny 1 last time. Aside from Floyd, Marquez has
the biggest argument.

[Rome-By-Ko]

There are three explanations for why JMM is being black balled.

1) He's a GBP fighter. Arum is as equally ****ish as GB and most promoters are. He doesn't like to do business with them.

2) He really IS the hardest fight for Manny outside of Floyd regardless of weight, because he's a counterpunching wizard who has already solved the Pacquiao puzzle

3) JMM got beaten so soundly by Floyd that any bit of vulnerability even an 8-4 type of win, would effect the perception of how Manny would do against Floyd.

I didn't read the article, but those are the reasons. They have to be...

I think it's a little of all three. Sadly JMM is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now if he gets on his high horse again and starts demanding steroid tests then it's a different story...

I think your rite here,on all accounts..JMM should move up and fight some Jr WW to force the issue..

[LeadUppercut]

Pac is not the same size as Cotto,or Marga's??Yet Pac beats the hell out of both of umm..Bottomline Marquez wants to play with the big boys bring ya azz on up here then..

Well, Manny tried to weight-drain Cotto.

There are two reasons to demand a catch-weight, either you are not good enough to compete with that fighter at his natural weight, which is fine..... or you are attempting to drain him to gain an unfair advantage, which is not fine. Team Pacquiao tried to drain Cotto, because Manny had already fought at 147.

Whether Cotto was actually drained or not is irrelevant.....
just because the bullet missed, does not lessen the intent.

And you say that.....
" Marquez wants to play with the big boys bring ya azz on up here then. "

He did. He agreed to go to 147, because he is a P4P legend.

Whereas Manny on the other hand, will not even fight in his own division without a catch-weight, and apparently he will not fight a genuine JMW even with a catch-weight.

If Manny "wants to play with the big boys bring ya azz on up here then".....
why won't he fight Martinez?

Marquez will go up two divisions, yet Manny won't even defend his title?

That is P4P ducking right there.

The real point is this, real P4P fighters don't call for catch-weights, they knock those guys out like Martinez did to Williams.

[FloydTBE]

Lead I respect you alot,but tbh your bugging JMM is a great fighter..But Pac is league's ahead of JMM..Pac beat this dude one handed and now that Pac has come full circle he would destroy JMM if they fought right now..

close fights, some say jmm won others say pac won. id like to see a 3d fight at 140lbs, but that aint gunna happen, pacs too busy planning fighting shane n cotto/marg

[LeadUppercut]

There are three explanations for why JMM is being black balled.

1) He's a GBP fighter. Arum is as equally ****ish as GB and most promoters are. He doesn't like to do business with them.

2) He really IS the hardest fight for Manny outside of Floyd regardless of weight, because he's a counterpunching wizard who has already solved the Pacquiao puzzle

3) JMM got beaten so soundly by Floyd that any bit of vulnerability even an 8-4 type of win, would effect the perception of how Manny would do against Floyd.

I didn't read the article, but those are the reasons. They have to be...

I think it's a little of all three. Sadly JMM is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now if he gets on his high horse again and starts demanding steroid tests then it's a different story...

That is a very good post.

[Rome-By-Ko]

Well, Manny tried to weight-drain Cotto.

There are two reasons to demand a catch-weight, either you are not good enough to compete with that fighter at his natural weight, which is fine..... or you are attempting to drain him to gain an unfair advantage, which is not fine. Team Pacquiao tried to drain Cotto, because Manny had already fought at 147.

Whether Cotto was actually drained or not is irrelevant.....
just because the bullet missed, does not lessen the intent.

And you say that.....
" Marquez wants to play with the big boys bring ya azz on up here then. "

He did. He agreed to go to 147, because he is a P4P legend.

Whereas Manny on the other hand, will not even fight in his own division without a catch-weight, and apparently he will not fight a genuine JMW even with a catch-weight.

If Manny "wants to play with the big boys bring ya azz on up here then".....
why won't he fight Martinez?

Marquez will go up two divisions, yet Manny won't even defend his title?

That is P4P ducking right there.

The real point is this, real P4P fighters don't call for catch-weights, they knock those guys out like Martinez did to Williams.

You make good points here,can't really argue this..He did fight at a catch weight in both of those fights that's a fact..I'm not trying to say Marquez is not a good fighter(or a HOF fighter)I just think Pac is also a great fighter and has beating bigger fighters,JMM moved up and look like crap at the weight..He was slow,and did not carry his power up with him..So it just seems like he will get dominated again..There are alot of fights for JMM at 140lb why not test the waters there if he does not get a fight with Pac??

[Rome-By-Ko]

close fights, some say jmm won others say pac won. id like to see a 3d fight at 140lbs, but that aint gunna happen, pacs too busy planning fighting shane n cotto/marg

I thought Pac won both,what's ya take??