Comments Thread For: HBO Pres Unsure Why Mayweather Turned Pacquiao Down

[LeadUppercut]

Ok, here are the facts based on the links you posted:

1. Both Arum and Al Haymon, Floyd's manager were negotiating for the fight.
2. They did it through Greenberg who communicated between the two, thus it would be logical that there really was no meeting, because Greenberg served as an intermediary to prevent tensions from messing up the negotiations.
3. Its logical for no talks or meetings since as i stated above, they communicated through Greenberg and no agreements or contracts or deals were made because THEY WERE STILL NEGOTIATING.
4. Contracts are made once both parties REACH AN AGREEMENT.
5. Apparently you can't agree with someone who suddenly refuses to continue talks (which were INDEED GOING ON ACCORDING TO GREENBERG).
6. The talks fell apart when Floyd's side suddenly, and without any explanation whatsoever, refused to communicate any further and even denied ever being in talks.


Like i said. There's no denying Arum is a liar. But to say that the talks never happened just because Bob was wrong or lying about certain details doesn't mean it never happened.

The first time, we know Arum lied because he contradicted himself as shown by the second link you provided.

But we know that he wasn't lying by the second link because Greenberg backed it up. The talks did happen, just not the way Bob described it in the first link.

Oh, stop the rubbish.....

That whole post was rubbish, because it was solely based on this.....

" But we know that he wasn't lying by the second link because Greenberg backed it up. The talks did happen, just not the way Bob described it in the first link "

WTF ?

That whole post was based on a contradiction

Did you even realise what you said ?

Let me break it down in case you haven't noticed yet.....

" But we know that he wasn't lying by the second link because Greenberg backed it up "

The second link categorically proves that the deadline was a sham. Why am I discussing this with you?
LMAO, Bob Arum publicly stated for weeks that he was negotiating with GBP, there are truckloads of interviews, and if you can't remember that, then you can't have been very interested in this fight

It is undeniable that Bob Arum's deadline was solely based on a negotiation (the first link) that never took place (the second link).....

then you said.....

" The talks did happen, just not the way Bob described it in the first link "

Well, you are fkn right about that genius..... in the first link, Arum stated that a deadline that he negotiated with GBP was about to expire..... in the second link he admitted that he never even spoke with GBP

That post was rubbish, and it is convenient for you to overlook Marley's revelations about Greenburg's involvement. I will post it again, but before I do.....

It is naive to think that a fight of this magnitude could be handled by a phone call from Greenburg. FACT: When this fight gets made, it will involve serious ongoing negotiations between Top Rank and Mayweather's chosen representative, most likely GBP. And Ross Greenburg, will be onhand and available if required..... exactly like what happened back in January, and exactly like what has happened in every major fight since, oh, I dunno..... the fkn dawning of time.

Here are some points that you missed about Greenburg's involvement.....

" Michael Marley, the day after Arum's infamous "teleconference," came right out and said it. This was days before Leonard Ellerbe spoke..... Negotiation just hadn't been happening. They'd started, briefly, but capitulated almost instantly, according to Marley.....

Marley claimed that Arum had only spoken to Greenburg once, months ago. And that conversation was little more than Arum telling him his demands. Demands that Golden Boy just weren't interested in. "

Neither Greenburg nor Haymon were even mentioned, until AFTER the "deadline" had expired during Bob Arum's conference call. Up until that stage, Bob Arum insisted that he was personally negotiating with Golden Boy Promotions.

" Arum, according to Marley, approached Greenburg with his terms for the fight. Terms, Marley suspects, that were never going to be accepted. Terms, that in regards to drug testing, were even worse than the last fight.....

The big lie came with Arum's claims that these terms had been negotiated and accepted......

Marley claims that this is just 100 percent false. There were no real talks. No deals. No agreements. No contracts.....

Arum claimed that he was waiting for Mayweather to agree to his offer, and had been dealing with Greenberg. The problem being, his dealings with Greenberg amounted to one conversation in which he sent him an awful offer, knowing full well it wouldn't work. No negotiations, talks, or discussions whatsoever.

Arum could well find himself in a tough position, however. Dan Raphael reported that Ellerbe is not only one of the most honest guys in boxing, he's also been speaking to Greenberg regularly for weeks. These daily conversations have reportedly gone on after his claim that basically either Greenberg or Arum is a stone cold liar.

Which suggests to most that Greenberg agrees with his pronouncement.

Again, Marley is a Top Rank guy, and a noted Pacquiao backer. He reported that Arum's claims of "negotiations" and "agreements" were phony.....Arum completely and utterly exaggerated all claims of "agreements," "deals," "contracts," and "negotiations."

AFighter4U, I think that you are either being a little naive, or you have an agenda

[LeadUppercut]

Fighter, I am asking these questions again, because they have STILL not been answered..... even after 40+ pages.

When the following things occur simultaneously.....

* something bizarre happens

* as a result, everyone is pointing at Bob Arum and calling him a liar

* there is considerable financial gain at stake for Bob Arum to lie

* there is documented proof highlighting the fact that he did lie

* it is well known that he has been doing this for 40 years

..... you would have be either a naive fan-boy or a nut-hugger to deny it

HERE IS BOB ARUM LYING TO YOU.....
Nobody denies that Arum publicly stated on numerous occasions that he personally negotiated a deal with GBP, who forwarded it to Mayweather for approval. Then he placed a two week " deadline " on the table, even going to the trouble of putting a count-down timer on the Top Rank website.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

HERE IS BOB ARUM ADMITTING IT.....
Then, after Bob Arum's conference call, Schaefer immediately released a statement which forced Arum to admit that both him and Ross Greenburg had NEVER spoken with anyone from GBP.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

THE DEADLINE WAS A SHAM !!

WHAT SORT OF NEGOTIATION HAS.....
" No meetings, no talks, no agreements, no contracts, no deals " ???

Who the *** e-mails a ****ty offer that has already been rejected, leaves no room at all for any kind of negotiation..... no meetings, no talks, no agreements, no contracts, no deals..... NOTHING..... and call's that an official negotiation?

WTF you noobs ?

[tornillo57]

Fantasy fights belong in the fantasy boxing forum.

LOL !

I hope it happens

[Dave Rado]

I'm bored with this discussion. Large type on the internet is equivalent to shouting, repeating oneself over and over again is equivalent to calling someone an idiot, and the subject has been done to death. I stand by what I said earlier, but I can't be bothered to go into it any more.

[dan-b]

I'm bored with this discussion. Large type on the internet is equivalent to shouting, repeating oneself over and over again is equivalent to calling someone an idiot, and the subject has been done to death. I stand by what I said earlier, but I can't be bothered to go into it any more.

I find it's best to dismiss the people who continue with this nonsense as kids who only got into boxing a few years back, at most. Doesn't matter whether it's this forum, another forum, or the comments' sections on YouTube - full of vitriol from angry kids/******s who think backing "their man" is something honourable and worthwhile. Time for some people to grow up a bit.

[dan-b]

I'm bored with this discussion. Large type on the internet is equivalent to shouting, repeating oneself over and over again is equivalent to calling someone an idiot, and the subject has been done to death. I stand by what I said earlier, but I can't be bothered to go into it any more.

You've also got to laugh at these kids who became PED experts and contract negotiators overnight, also. How many times have you read words to the effect "that's how you negotiate" etc? Yeah, like the boxing big wheels spend their time on forums arguing about who said what and when.

[AFighter4U]

Oh, stop the rubbish.....

That whole post was rubbish, because it was solely based on this.....

" But we know that he wasn't lying by the second link because Greenberg backed it up. The talks did happen, just not the way Bob described it in the first link "

WTF ?

That whole post was based on a contradiction

Did you even realise what you said ?

Let me break it down in case you haven't noticed yet.....

" But we know that he wasn't lying by the second link because Greenberg backed it up "

The second link categorically proves that the deadline was a sham. Why am I discussing this with you?
LMAO, Bob Arum publicly stated for weeks that he was negotiating with GBP, there are truckloads of interviews, and if you can't remember that, then you can't have been very interested in this fight

It is undeniable that Bob Arum's deadline was solely based on a negotiation (the first link) that never took place (the second link).....

then you said.....

" The talks did happen, just not the way Bob described it in the first link "

Well, you are fkn right about that genius..... in the first link, Arum stated that a deadline that he negotiated with GBP was about to expire..... in the second link he admitted that he never even spoke with GBP

That post was rubbish, and it is convenient for you to overlook Marley's revelations about Greenburg's involvement. I will post it again, but before I do.....

It is naive to think that a fight of this magnitude could be handled by a phone call from Greenburg. FACT: When this fight gets made, it will involve serious ongoing negotiations between Top Rank and Mayweather's chosen representative, most likely GBP. And Ross Greenburg, will be onhand and available if required..... exactly like what happened back in January, and exactly like what has happened in every major fight since, oh, I dunno..... the fkn dawning of time.

Here are some points that you missed about Greenburg's involvement.....

" Michael Marley, the day after Arum's infamous "teleconference," came right out and said it. This was days before Leonard Ellerbe spoke..... Negotiation just hadn't been happening. They'd started, briefly, but capitulated almost instantly, according to Marley.....

Marley claimed that Arum had only spoken to Greenburg once, months ago. And that conversation was little more than Arum telling him his demands. Demands that Golden Boy just weren't interested in. "

Neither Greenburg nor Haymon were even mentioned, until AFTER the "deadline" had expired during Bob Arum's conference call. Up until that stage, Bob Arum insisted that he was personally negotiating with Golden Boy Promotions.

" Arum, according to Marley, approached Greenburg with his terms for the fight. Terms, Marley suspects, that were never going to be accepted. Terms, that in regards to drug testing, were even worse than the last fight.....

The big lie came with Arum's claims that these terms had been negotiated and accepted......

Marley claims that this is just 100 percent false. There were no real talks. No deals. No agreements. No contracts.....

Arum claimed that he was waiting for Mayweather to agree to his offer, and had been dealing with Greenberg. The problem being, his dealings with Greenberg amounted to one conversation in which he sent him an awful offer, knowing full well it wouldn't work. No negotiations, talks, or discussions whatsoever.

Arum could well find himself in a tough position, however. Dan Raphael reported that Ellerbe is not only one of the most honest guys in boxing, he's also been speaking to Greenberg regularly for weeks. These daily conversations have reportedly gone on after his claim that basically either Greenberg or Arum is a stone cold liar.

Which suggests to most that Greenberg agrees with his pronouncement.

Again, Marley is a Top Rank guy, and a noted Pacquiao backer. He reported that Arum's claims of "negotiations" and "agreements" were phony.....Arum completely and utterly exaggerated all claims of "agreements," "deals," "contracts," and "negotiations."

AFighter4U, I think that you are either being a little naive, or you have an agenda

@LeadUppercut

You do realize that you are putting precedence of the word of a person who HEARD ABOUT CERTAIN DETAILS ABOUT THE TALKS (Marley) over the person actually involved in the talks himself (Greeberg).

Now i won't pretend to know exactly what's going on between Marley and Greenberg and why their stories don't exactly jive. But between the two, Greenberg has a much bigger stake in this fight. Not to mention he's actually the one involved in the talks and Marley is just a spectator.

In short, this ENTIRE discussion can be summed up in one sentence:

According to Greenberg, the fight was close to being made during BOTH rounds of NEGOTIATIONS.

No amount of analysis between what other parties thought the main protagonists said, or how what one person heard was different from what another person said would change what Greenberg, the guy LITERALLY at the center of the talks said.

The answer is just so simple:

Greenberg said the talks happened. And according to him, Floyd's side backed out for no apparent reason just when things were going well.

End of story.

Look, i've already said my piece and its all up to you to believe me or not. If you still believe that i'm either naive or have an agenda, i'll leave it up to you.

[LeadUppercut]

I find it's best to dismiss the people who continue with this nonsense as kids who only got into boxing a few years back, at most. Doesn't matter whether it's this forum, another forum, or the comments' sections on YouTube - full of vitriol from angry kids/******s who think backing "their man" is something honourable and worthwhile. Time for some people to grow up a bit.

Amusing, and ironic.....
" ******s who think backing "their man" is something honourable and worthwhile "

Then just stop it.

Stop ignoring the obvious, in favor of " convenient " theorising, just to back your man. Explain Arum's lies genius, or was Arum just "backing his man"

YOU GOT SETUP.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

YOU GOT PLAYED.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

DEAL WITH IT, SUCKER !!

[LeadUppercut]

I'm bored with this discussion. Large type on the internet is equivalent to shouting, repeating oneself over and over again is equivalent to calling someone an idiot, and the subject has been done to death. I stand by what I said earlier, but I can't be bothered to go into it any more.

Point taken.....

But it is fkn annoying to spend time writing a post to address somebody's question, only for them to (conveniently) completely ignore it.

If ever there was justification for a repost in bold, then that is it......
e.g. still waiting to have those three questiuons answered honestly, let alone addressed.

[LeadUppercut]

@LeadUppercut

You do realize that you are putting precedence of the word of a person who HEARD ABOUT CERTAIN DETAILS ABOUT THE TALKS (Marley) over the person actually involved in the talks himself (Greeberg).

Now i won't pretend to know exactly what's going on between Marley and Greenberg and why their stories don't exactly jive. But between the two, Greenberg has a much bigger stake in this fight. Not to mention he's actually the one involved in the talks and Marley is just a spectator.

In short, this ENTIRE discussion can be summed up in one sentence:

According to Greenberg, the fight was close to being made during BOTH rounds of NEGOTIATIONS.

No amount of analysis between what other parties thought the main protagonists said, or how what one person heard was different from what another person said would change what Greenberg, the guy LITERALLY at the center of the talks said.

The answer is just so simple:

Greenberg said the talks happened. And according to him, Floyd's side backed out for no apparent reason just when things were going well.

End of story.

Look, i've already said my piece and its all up to you to believe me or not. If you still believe that i'm either naive or have an agenda, i'll leave it up to you.

I think that you have an agenda..... pac-boy

Which is funny, because this has nothing to do with Manny

Walk around with a box on your head if you wish, but I prefer not to be so gullible. You are a sucker if you think that Bob Arum played this straight up.

The thing is, I don't actually think you do. So, your bottom line is "conveniently" supporting your agenda, which is dishonest.

Clearly Arum lied, clearly there is a reason why, and so it is highly unlikely that anything played out as Arum has stated.

You are naive for thinking that a fight of this magnitude could be handled by a phone call from Greenburg, with no meetings/negotiations/etc.

I mean just look at this rubbish you posted.....
" Greenberg said the talks happened. And according to him, Floyd's side backed out for no apparent reason just when things were going well "

WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT ?

Because you think that Mayweather is " scared " of Manny?

GROW UP KID !!

So, even when faced with undeniable proof that Arum lied, even when EVERYBODY called Arum a liar, you still insist that the WHOLE reason that this situation occured is because Mayweather is scared of Manny..... oh yes, it would have nothing to do with the millions in extra revenue.

That sounds fkn ridiculous.

Tell me then genius, why did Arum lie ?

YOU GOT SETUP.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

YOU GOT PLAYED.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324