Do u believe in the phantom punch???

[MARKBNLV]

[NChristo]

I believe it was a dive and nobody will change my mind, it was a great counter punch but Ali was never had 1 punch KO power and Liston had a granite chin, it may of caught him of balance and toppled him but that's it.

[MARKBNLV]

I believe it was a dive and nobody will change my mind, it was a great counter punch but Ali was never had 1 punch KO power and Liston had a granite chin, it may of caught him of balance and toppled him but that's it.

Depends bro take a shot on the tip of your chin or behind your ear and get back to me.

[Hitman932]

In slow motion and HD.

I don't think it was a KO punch, but I also do not believe that Listons went into the fight with the express intent to throw the thing.

I just believe that when he was caught with a good hard shot like that early in the fight that put him down he was embarrassed and intimidated and basically just quit on himself rather than endure a beating.

I guess it's somewhat similar to Foreman being humiliated by Ali in Zaire and not getting up because he just didn't want to, and not because he was badly hurt or involved in anything crooked.

[MARKBNLV]

In slow motion and HD.

I don't think it was a KO punch, but I also do not believe that Listons went into the fight with the express intent to throw the thing.

I just believe that when he was caught with a good hard shot like that early in the fight that put him down he was embarrassed and intimidated and basically just quit on himself rather than endure a beating.

I guess it's somewhat similar to Foreman being humiliated by Ali in Zaire and not getting up because he just didn't want to, and not because he was badly hurt or involved in anything crooked.

Looked pretty powerful to me,and as they saw the shot that hurt's the worst is the one you do not see coming.

[Hitman932]

Looked pretty powerful to me,and as they saw the shot that hurt's the worst is the one you do not see coming.

I didn't say it wasn't. Just that it wasn't hard enough to KO Liston all by itself.

The punch was obviously hard enough that Liston didn't want to get up, but her certainly could have.

The question is really whether he entered the ring with the intent to quit, or did he give up on himself in the heat of the moment because he believed he could not win.

[Die Antwoord]

At best, Ali should have been made to go back to his corner. At worst it was a dive. either way no one shoudl consider it a legitimate win.

[MARKBNLV]

I didn't say it wasn't. Just that it wasn't hard enough to KO Liston all by itself.

The punch was obviously hard enough that Liston didn't want to get up, but her certainly could have.

The question is really whether he entered the ring with the intent to quit, or did he give up on himself in the heat of the moment because he believed he could not win.

I think he was hurt pretty bad as time goes on fighters lose there chins,we saw that not long ago with Andrade.

[bojangles1987]

The punch clearly lands. That's not a debate. As far as whether Liston just stayed down because he was throwing the fight, I don't think so. I think he stayed down, but that's because he was a bully and knew he was in for another long night when that punch put him down.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I often think how great it would be to have Ali in this era of 24/7 shows and the like, Gold!

Have u read Ghosts of Manilla? Paints a much darker picture of Ali

Mark Kram wrote that book and I thought he put his own opinion completely into it...it was not based on facts, it was based on his opinions that he tried to pass off as facts...and many of them IMO were very wrong...