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Certainly, though the fighters both men KOed are fairly comparable in quality, or at least in chin quality, in my opinion. As to the fighters they rocked or knocked down well there's no doubt that Shavers has the edge there. But then, Tua never knocked another fighter down and then failed to finish them. That's one of the crazy things about Tua that makes me rate his punching power so highly. If you got caught by Tua it was game over, no ifs or buts.
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Last edited by nomadman; 10-24-2010, 07:48 PM. -
Hi all
Of course my sorry butt would be here...to argue Shavers' title...
Howard Smith was heavily favored to KO Shavers and just overall dominate him. Shavers broke two vertebrae in his neck with a single right hand, effectively retiring Smith.
Good luck finding a more sickening KO than that one
Prime Shavers and Prime Norton, Shavers gets rid of Norton in one, watch that uppercut! After this fight Norton was reduced to a zombie and was shortly KOed by Gerry Cooney. Cooney hit Norton at least 7 times while he was down flush with his signature blow. I should know, I am the one who originally revealed that fight on youtube! Even after taking that many flush shots from Cooney, Norton still was not in as bad shape as he was from the one Shavers uppercut.
Even Mike Tyson who was known for a hefty knowledge in past fighters, says that Shavers and Foreman hit "Much harder than" himself.
Ali says that Shavers was the hardest he was ever hit. Ali abandoned the idea of rope-a-doping Shavers early to avoid Earnie's body shots, if you watch the fight and see Shavers land, then watch Foreman do it, the difference is nearly stunning. Couple that with Shavers having Ali out on his feet a handful of times in Ali's last hurrah and it is easier to see that Shavers hit harder than George. Had Ali fought Shavers like he did George, he would have lost quickly...Or it would have been one helluva boring fight as Earnie just stands their and watches him.
Ron Lyle, Shavers hit me the hardest. Notice in the two fights, Shavers-Lyle(A freaking classic), and Foreman-Lyle, it took Foreman 4 rounds of flush power shots to get rid of Lyle. Earlier against a much fresher Lyle, Shavers collected Lyle with a glancing left hook at the end of round two, Lyle was down for 13 seconds as the confused referee ran between corners, Lyle was then CARRIED to his stool to continue the fight, I would argue that NO fighter today has that kind of guts! Lyle would be champion today, so would Shavers to a lesser extent, and that sir is a argument you will lose over and over.
James Tillis, both in this video and in his book has stated that Earnie Shavers was not only the hardest hitter he ever faced, but the toughest nut. Tillis fought Shavers at the end of his brutal career, Shavers suffering from a detached retina that nearly(and probably should have) ended his career. Tillis fought Tyson at his peak, and the Old man still hit harder despite the discrepancy in physical ability and in skill.
At the end of his career Shavers KOed Larry Sims in one round, whereas it took the much more skilled and accurate Prime Mike Tyson 3 rounds to end Sims!
On the back of Earnie's book, which I have here on my lap, their are quotes. One is from Holmes, "Earnie hit me harder than any other fighter, including Mike Tyson. He hit me and I was face down on the canvas hearing saxophonist Jimmy Tillis." Shavers fought Holmes in his prime, at the top of his game, and still managed to give him one of the toughest runs of his career, something that I know Tyson would not have been able to do. Tyson ALWAYS had trouble with a great slick boxer.
Even Referee Mills lane says that Shavers was the greatest one-punch hitter he had ever seen.
Shavers KOed Henry Clark, a very cagey heavyweight fighter, in two rounds. It took Sonny Liston 7 rounds, and Norton 9 to do so much earlier in Clark's career(More experienced when he fought Shavers)!!
Was Shavers the best puncher I have ever seen? Not even top 50. Was he the hardest? You got it baby, #1! That is another reason Shavers is rated 1 by most if not all of the boxing historians and knowhows, Shavers lacked great ability and technique in the ring, he was...well he was about as skilled as today's typical heavyweight, but Shavers made up for that, poor stamina, and a dodgy chin with a devastating punch.Comment
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Now Foreman's turn, Big George deserves a go too!
Foreman's jab, arguably, along with Sonny Liston's, was the hardest in boxing history. That jab, believe it or not, carries more knockout power than a Mike Tyson hook...Watch for yourself...
The power of Foreman was no joke, even if the technique was. I will say with confidence, that their is no man here on this forum, or maybe even the world alive today, that can do what Foreman did to that heavybag in 3 5 minute rounds as said in the video, and if you can post a video here of you or someone you know doing that, creating a head sized crater in a 100+lbs heavybag, I will personally give you...green k!!!!!!!! :P
Even Old George, probably the hardest hitter of that era, could not hit anything like Young(Most would figure that anyway)
Evander Holyfield said that Old Foreman hit him the hardest, harder than Tyson, and harder even than Bert Cooper, a underestimated power puncher himself(If you haven't seen Holyfield-Cooper, GO NOW, it is awesome!)
Give Shannon Briggs a few months to recoup from Vitali, I promise he will be saying that Big George was the hardest he was ever hit. Keep in mind that Lewis KOed Briggs in 5 rounds, brutally also. Vitalli, good fighter that he is, was unable to do so after 12 rounds of vicious punching and several flush shots. Big George beat Briggs in his Prime, rather well as I scored it. The biggest fight I could think of for George would be Lennox Lewis, not Tyson because that was a bad matchup, but Lewis!
Discuss, itll be a damn good talk with Ovah here!
Oh and I have to add Ovah, in that KO you showed of Wlad in the 12th round, the dude he was fight was completely out of it, he was fatigued AND rocked, then Wlad landed a textbook perfect left hook and NIGHTY NIGHT...Reminded me of the Ruddock-Dokes KO a little. I am in the process of reviewing Vitali, who is grossly overrated in alot of ways and underrated in several others, after that I will be on Wlad, give me 3 or 4 days!Last edited by XionComrade; 10-24-2010, 11:57 PM.Comment
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He was probably some 15-5 bum with 15 kos.who knows unless your getting punched in the face.Comment
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Best post of the entire thread. I remember watching a journeyman welterweight a few years ago. The guy across the back was like a box. Built just like Earnie. He was massive and if he was on steroids, I wouldn't be surprised a bit. His arms weren't big, his legs weren't that big, just his lats, his back muscles. I saw him hit his opponent so freaking hard it was just insane...Just the way he threw it and the way it connected you knew that guy was done. Easily the hardest hitter I have seen at Welter, he was a nobody...Even harder hitter than Tszyu IMHO!Comment
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Honestly Shavers and Foreman have overrated power. They were never actual 1 hitter quitters.
Tyson hit harder than Both. Video evidence supports that.
However, in terms of 1 punch KO power. It's David Tua. Hands down.
No biase. No revisionist romanticism. No bull****.
Just go by video evidence. Nothing defines pure power quite like that short hook Tua threw against, Darrol Wilson... who was undefeated at the time and just beat a prime Shannon Briggs. Tua threw that hook with probably 5 inches of movement and knocks Wilson out kold.Comment
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Explosive power is defined in a couple of criteria imo.
First round KO's.
And 1 punch KO's.
If a person has truly frightening power, he should be able to KO a lot of his opponents in the first round.
If a person has true KO power, he should be able to put his opponents down and out with 1 punch.
Tyson + Tua > All
ALl those other dudes are romanticised. None were real KO punchers. Vlad and Lennox would be 2nd tier after those 2.Comment
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Romanticized my ass...didn't you hear? Shavers literally broke Howard Smith's neck and Foreman could break ribs with single shots to the body...that is not romanticized by any stretch of the imagination, that is terrifying. Their is no romanticizing here, that is the same crap I hear from people all day long. People saying that Holmes says Shavers hit him hardest because he thought Shavers was a nicer guy than Tyson. People that spout that Ali said Shavers hit him harder to discredit Foreman and Liston AFTER HE RETIRED...People that say Holyfield stated Foreman hit him hardest because he was mad at Tyson for biting his ear, utter ****ing insanity...Shavers knocked out some of the cagiest boxers in heavyweight history, knocked them cold...Something Foreman or Tua would not be able to do.
The case can be made for Tua, because holy hell could he punch. Not only could he punch, but he is pinpoint accurate. He cannot punch like Shavers or Foreman, but he has one thing neither of them had and that is accuracy, that is what sets him apart from most any other puncher that caliber. Tyson could not punch at their level.
First round knockouts would be more for who was the better, not the harder...then you have to take into account the quality of those KOs, which is easy here because most of the early opponents were pushovers for all power punchers.
One punch KOs are nothing in comparison to KOing through the guard, if the guy has his hands up and you hit his hands to KO the guy with his own fist, you are a devastating puncher, I have seen Shavers, Baer, Foreman and Tua do this. Anyone can KO anyone with one good shot to the chin...But I see the point.
And who has Wlad ever KOed that was worthwhile? As a matter of fact who has he even fought that was a top level fighter? The answer...noone...Because their isn't anyone to fight...Comment
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p4p Julian Jackson is the greater puncher.Comment
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