I think Wlad Hits Harder Than Prime Tyson...

[americanbot]

Ali took countless shots from Foreman, to the body. He took several to the body from Mr.3round Shavers also. He only got hit in the head a handful of times, but was hit flush near the end of the fight. Shavers punched, but only punched once. He wasn't going to get Ali out of the fight at any point. Foreman punched...and punched...and punched. First time he stunned even Ali it would have been over. Foreman was a much better fighter, and much more terrifying that Shavers ever was, hence the reason for the care.

Ali said Shavers hit harder, that makes sense, and it is what you have to go by. Ron Lyle said Shavers hit harder, its on my youtube channel, that makes sense. Jimmy Young said the same thing, and Shavers KOed him. Norton was KOed in 1 round and said the same thing....Since the footage for Shavers on the bag is insanely expensive Hearsay is all we have to go buy. Crushing two vertebrae in Smith's neck is something Foreman nor Tyson ever did to a opponent...

Why would Evander Lie about something like that? Did Evander ever seem the type to lie? Even TYSON said that guys like Foreman and Shavers hit MUCH harder than he did, and Tyson should know, he is a student of the sport >.< All of these videos are in my channel....

noooooo. ali said shavers hit harder then foreman because shavers hit him A LOT More then what foreman could ever dream of. foreman was literally swinging at air early on in the ali fight. the only times when foreman started to land was when he was TIRED & his shots no longer had any heat behind them. thats when ali started talking to him, telling him that his punches didn't hurt & he's swinging & messing like a sissy. FACT is ali was very cautious of foreman but not with shavers (hints him taking a lot more shots in the shavers fight) you trying to argue that is hilarious. of course shavers would hit harder then foreman (to ali) when ali was hit a lot more often in the SHAVERS FIGHT. common sense.

why would evander lie about foreman hitting harder then tyson you ask? ok look. ali said that rocky would beat him.....do you think ali truly believes he would be beat by rocky? or is he just giving the man his respect? evander said foreman hit harder then tyson. me looking at the fights evander was hurt a lot more in the tyson fight vs the foreman one. i feel that he was giving foreman his respect. as i feel that ali was showing rocky respect. foreman was a huge power puncher so i wouldn't doubt that a "prime" foreman hits harder then tyson though.

[nomadman]

Thinking about it I don't think that chin could last 9 rounds with a prime Tyson, with Cus in his corner.

I mean HOW does Wlad fight him?

Keeping him on the outside with jabs, typing him up on the inside and wearing him down with a steady assault of one-twos. Not saying it'd work, but that's how he'd do it.

[XionComrade]

noooooo. ali said shavers hit harder then foreman because shavers hit him A LOT More then what foreman could ever dream of. foreman was literally swinging at air early on in the ali fight. the only times when foreman started to land was when he was TIRED & his shots no longer had any heat behind them. thats when ali started talking to him, telling him that his punches didn't hurt & he's swinging & messing like a sissy. FACT is ali was very cautious of foreman but not with shavers (hints him taking a lot more shots in the shavers fight) you trying to argue that is hilarious. of course shavers would hit harder then foreman (to ali) when ali was hit a lot more often in the SHAVERS FIGHT. common sense.

why would evander lie about foreman hitting harder then tyson you ask? ok look. ali said that rocky would beat him.....do you think ali truly believes he would be beat by rocky? or is he just giving the man his respect? evander said foreman hit harder then tyson. me looking at the fights evander was hurt a lot more in the tyson fight vs the foreman one. i feel that he was giving foreman his respect. as i feel that ali was showing rocky respect. foreman was a huge power puncher so i wouldn't doubt that a "prime" foreman hits harder then tyson though.

Foreman hit Ali Flush many many times, in the belly...Ali was moving Backwards against Shavers and was still out on his feet several times...Foreman had MUCH better stamina than Shavers IMO.

Look at the two Foreman and Tyson fights though, Foreman only threw a handful of shots, Tyson was throwing at least 5-6x the amount George was, and landing most of them, Tyson failed to hurt Holyfield and never could have KOed him.

Even if you use that logic to write off Ali's word, what about Lyle? What about Norton? What about Young?

And for the Tyson side of it, what about Holmes? Holmes was hardly KTFO after going down what, 3x in one round? Taking MANY flush shots from Tyson, which was Tyson's thing. He took ONE flush shot from a very very tired Shavers and was KTFO, that fight would have been stopped today. Holmes was also so over the hill he was under it when he faced Tyson...You cannot write that off

Tillis said that Old over the hill Earnie Shavers hit harder and "Was a tougher guy" than prime Mike Tyson

MIKE TYSON said that Earnie Shavers and George Foreman were MUCH harder hitters than he was, and from seeing George hit the bag, and seeing Tyson hit it, I would say that George hits MUCH harder...even Old George...

[americanbot]

Keeping him on the outside with jabs, typing him up on the inside and wearing him down with a steady assault of one-twos. Not saying it'd work, but that's how he'd do it.

thats the thing. how would wlad keep a 88 tyson on the outside with a jab. tyson had beautiful head movment. 88 mike wasn't just a come foward slugger. he could weave jabs easily & put on insane amounts of pressure.....

i see it as a bad mix for wlad.....

[XionComrade]

thats the thing. how would wlad keep a 88 tyson on the outside with a jab. tyson had beautiful head movment. 88 mike wasn't just a come foward slugger. he could weave jabs easily & put on insane amounts of pressure.....

i see it as a bad mix for wlad.....

Exactly, A pressure fighter, especially one with a big punch, is a horrible matchup for Wlad...Now Wlad - Lewis, Wlad - Ali, Wlad - Tua would be much more entertaining, but I think they would all take him down.

[DET. IRONSIDE]

Lets clear this foreman/shavers thing up.

Ali ducked Foreman.

[nomadman]

Ali took countless shots from Foreman, to the body. He took several to the body from Mr.3round Shavers also. He only got hit in the head a handful of times, but was hit flush near the end of the fight. Shavers punched, but only punched once. He wasn't going to get Ali out of the fight at any point. Foreman punched...and punched...and punched. First time he stunned even Ali it would have been over. Foreman was a much better fighter, and much more terrifying that Shavers ever was, hence the reason for the care.

Ali is about the only fighter who can truly compare the two fighters' respective power due to the fact that they both hit him hard to the body. However, I don't consider Ali to be entirely truthful with a great many of his statements, and the fact has to taken into account that he was past his prime when he fought Shavers. His legs were gone. A fighter's footwork can often take the edge of a punch, and Ali took numerous flush right hands from Shavers that he would have probably had less of an effect on him had he still possessed the footwork and reaction speed to roll away from them.

Ali said Shavers hit harder, that makes sense, and it is what you have to go by. Ron Lyle said Shavers hit harder, its on my youtube channel, that makes sense. Jimmy Young said the same thing, and Shavers KOed him. Norton was KOed in 1 round and said the same thing....Since the footage for Shavers on the bag is insanely expensive Hearsay is all we have to go buy. Crushing two vertebrae in Smith's neck is something Foreman nor Tyson ever did to a opponent...

Shavers probably did hit harder than Foreman, his punches certainly evinced a bigger reaction from his opponents. However, you don't need hearsay or fighter's quotes to judge a fighter's power. Shavers was a very hard puncher, no doubt, but he never had the sort of sickening knockouts that Tua or Tyson did. Both fighters I'd rank as harder hitters than him.

Why would Evander Lie about something like that? Did Evander ever seem the type to lie?

Erm, yeah he does. Evan Fields and numerous kids out of wedlock ring a bell?

Even TYSON said that guys like Foreman and Shavers hit MUCH harder than he did, and Tyson should know, he is a student of the sport >.< All of these videos are in my channel....

Unless he's felt both fighters going full force to his body he's in no better position to judge than any one of us. Fact is, Tyson knocked Holmes out. Shavers didn't.

[Siggy]

No I am clearing up some misconceptions here. The mass that is in question here is muscle....It is kinda the way we MOVE. Their is no muscle involved specifically with punching down, their is **** tons involved with punching up, ala Tua, Frazier, Tyson...Not only do they get to use their back muscles in a similar fashion that taller fighters do, but these pressure fighters can put nearly their entire lower body(Huge amounts of muscle) into the shots when moving forward. Gravity is going to be pulling on everything, a punch is a way to defy it, it will not be a advantage unless you are 7 foot tall

He doesn't commit in the same way Tyson does because he CANNOT, he is to tall. Whether he hit harder is up for grabs, but Tyson physically has a huge advantage here physiologically.

muscle is mass but you're not describing muscle as mass. you're describing muscle being the impetus behind acceleration, which is true. but that is not the only thing that drives acceleration in a boxer.
mass in the f=ma equation when applied to boxers is how much weight is behind the punch, size of the fist, etc.

what you are describing is fighters who have to exude more effort to generate their power (ie using leg muscles). anybody that knows proper punching technique knows that a lot of the power is derived from the lower body. wlad has great punching technique, so im pretty sure he uses his legs as well even though its not as visible as a fighter who has to crouch and is almost literally jumping into their punches.
wlad uses his legs as well to generate his power, unless you believe he's a heavy arm puncher.

and i disagree that wlad doesnt commit to his punches like tyson does becuz he is incapable of doing so. any fighter can swing as hard as they can and try to get every ounce of their being into a power punch.
commitment to punches is a matter of ring temperament and tactics.

[nomadman]

thats the thing. how would wlad keep a 88 tyson on the outside with a jab. tyson had beautiful head movment. 88 mike wasn't just a come foward slugger. he could weave jabs easily & put on insane amounts of pressure.....

i see it as a bad mix for wlad.....

As I said, I didn't say he'd win, but that would be how he would fight that fight, and the method in which he'd have the greatest success. Tyson's head movement would certainly give him a good chance to slip a Wlad jab and get on the inside,where he could land a sharp short hook or overhand that might stun Wlad enough to finish him. He could also just as likely get tied up, leant on, and worn out until he's too knackered to do anything, at which point it's vitaully over for him.

[americanbot]

Foreman hit Ali Flush many many times, in the belly...Ali was moving Backwards against Shavers and was still out on his feet several times...Foreman had MUCH better stamina than Shavers IMO.

Look at the two Foreman and Tyson fights though, Foreman only threw a handful of shots, Tyson was throwing at least 5-6x the amount George was, and landing most of them, Tyson failed to hurt Holyfield and never could have KOed him.

Even if you use that logic to write off Ali's word, what about Lyle? What about Norton? What about Young?

And for the Tyson side of it, what about Holmes? Holmes was hardly KTFO after going down what, 3x in one round? Taking MANY flush shots from Tyson, which was Tyson's thing. He took ONE flush shot from a very very tired Shavers and was KTFO, that fight would have been stopped today. Holmes was also so over the hill he was under it when he faced Tyson...You cannot write that off

Tillis said that Old over the hill Earnie Shavers hit harder and "Was a tougher guy" than prime Mike Tyson

MIKE TYSON said that Earnie Shavers and George Foreman were MUCH harder hitters than he was, and from seeing George hit the bag, and seeing Tyson hit it, I would say that George hits MUCH harder...even Old George...

foreman really didn't land anything early on in the ali fight. ali was doing little things which neutralized his bombs. foreman started landing his shots later on in the fight which his punches was that less effective as time passed. plus foreman was already battling the heat in africa so him swinging away like that sucks the life right out of any power puncher. ali out smarted & out boxed foreman in that one.

shavers was a huge power puncher. i really do feel he is one of the all time hardest punchers of the sport. but i don't know if he's better then foreman as far as that list goes.


tyson hurt holyfield with some huge body shots in their first bout. notice how after tyson assaults evander with those body shots evander backs up & his left hand goes down slightly. the reason for this is if you are in the ring (or sparring) and your opponent lands a good body shot. your mind tells you to grab that spot that just been hurt. but you battle your mind. holyfield was winning that round but when that body shot came he got the air knocked out of him therefore he couldn't fight like he was fighting early on in the round. the commentators even point this out. i don't remember foreman ever hurting evander with any shots like that let alone body shots.

skip to 4:34.