BERNABE CONCEPTION= Manny Pacquiao w/o Special Blended “Power Shakes”??

[Frank Martin]

I saw similarties in the style, but that it similarties. Pacquiao is a role model for filipino fighters you're bound to have some guys trying to imitate his style and failing. The same way Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. tried to fight like his dad when it doesn't suit his attributes, Concepcion doesn't just lack the power of Pacquiao he lacks the quick feet, the angles, he spins off but not with the same frequency and conviction that Pacquiao does. There are similarities and alot of differences.

I've read and seen young fighters trying to fight like Mayweather when they clearly don't possess the reflexes or skills to pull it off but it doesn't stop them trying. I think it's naive to call Pacquiao a roided up Concepcion just because there a similarities in their style. Concepcion has none of Pacquiao's awkwardness either.

Abe has powers. He just lacks movement and speed.

[yeks]

nice analogy horus.. every fighter that fights like pacquiao would prove pac is on peds..

keep reaching..

[intoccabile]

That the only difference in my opinion. just look at their styles.
Both worked with Roach, both from the Philippines, Both used the same kind of foot work, and neither of get confuse for a defensive specialist.

Pacman bounces more, is on his toes more. ALso bounces side to side and in and out whilst punching. It may seem like a small diference, but it is actually much larger than you think when in combat.

he also is more active. Bernabe does a lot of side to side head movement from a peek a boo ala pacman but pac keeps his hands moving more, putting a straight left or jab out to head or body whilst doing so to keep his opponent guessing.

Sure.. a small change, but drastic when in combat.

Being much faster then your opponent is huge too which pacman usually is both in hand and foot. This is actually something huge.

pacman after attacking doesn't sit there too much longer before stepping bouncing out, Concepcion stays in the pocket a bit too long.

Also, the punches aren't the same. Pacman isn't a wide puncher.. infact.. he's a 1-2-1-2-1-2 kind of guy. Picture Martinez/Pavlik round 9 to 12... Martinez pulled out teh 1-2-1-2 combo over and over... that's pretty much pac virtually all fight plus the occasional hook around (around=body) or overhand up type (occasional upper, too).

The stances and fundamentals look very simular but there's a lot of thigns going on with pacman that although don't look that huge on paper, are incredible in the ring

[Ryn0]

Abe has powers. He just lacks movement and speed.

He has power, he just doesn't have the punch Pacquiao does.

[Horus]

I promise almost everybody who replied to me in this thread will get a response, i got 1 hour to kill. so let's do it

[Tamis!]

I promise almost everybody who replied to me in this thread will get a response, i got 1 hour to kill. so let's do it

LOL kill yourself!

Stick to dreaming about designing Floyd's boat as his investment.

And watch Forrest Gump so you can have a tip or two about Bubba's shrimp boat plans, now that's an investment!

[Horus]

1.) Flaws in his offense? Like what give me and example. There is the most oblivious flaw in using any offense which is you can be hit if you are attempting to hit and opponent. Which Concepcion clearly showed when getting hit with the counter left hook.

2.)Now Pacquiao because he's primarily an offensive fighter has minimised the risk of getting hit whilist throwing his punches by using awkward angles footwork and simply covering his face with his hands if anything comes back, other than the footwork his actual defence isn't exception but it's the combination of attempting to avoid Pacquiao's punch from an odd angle whilst trying to hit him as he spins off after a shot.

3.)There are flaws such as him being off balance alot but he's able to throw hard punches while he's off balances. There are postives and negatives to everything he does just like with any fighters.

4.)I disagree with your assessment about Roach fighters, he does teach a great offensive game and while his defensive techniques may not be as effective as Mayweathers it's more than just offense. Look at Khan for instance, he's being hit alot less than he was before he was a Roach fighter, his long jab is a form of defense he throws it from far out and it stops people from getting inside on him. If anyone gets to close he simply sticks his long arms infront of his face and gets into a safe range again. His defense before Roach was much worse. There have been changes to his offensive game but in general Khan was a very good Offesive fighter he just didn't know how to incorporate defense it was one or the other until he came to Roach.

5.)You also can't chalk it all up to Roach some guys will never have the boxing brain to incorporate a great defense it just isn't going to happen. Most people just seem to ignore the slight tweaks to a defense and instead focus on the offensive changes because that's whats most noticable unless your a very defense focused guy with a great defensive eye catching style like Whittaker, Mayweather and the early Guzman years.

6.)Just look at Khan or Chavez Jr., Chavez Jr got hit a fair bit against Duddy but he took alot more punishment against a lesser fighter in Matt Vanda, Khan got tagged harder amnd more frequently against Prescott, Gomez and Limond than he did against Barrera, Kotelnik and Malignaggi but people don't focus on the smaller but equally important defensive tweaks and instead notice the flashier hard straight right hand or counter uppercut that Khan was using against Paulie.

7.)But in general if we aren't talking specifically about Roach fighters then yes offense generates more instant results but against the Elite instant results aren't what a fighter needs.

1.) When I speak of Flaws of Pacquiao Offense, I am almost strictly pointing to his unorthdox style of offense in the sense that Pacquiao relies on his reflex's and natural ability almost to the same extent as Roy did to hide lack of fundamental's. I wouldnt go as to compare reflex stlye of fighting to Prince Naseem, but him being off balance to the extent that he does, Just lets me know that when he fights a BOXER, and not just any BOXER. But Master boxer like JMM, he is always going to have problems because Pacquiao, ala Bernabe "IMO" can be timed with Short, straight punches because he is always running in swinging, instead walking in with a step up punch.
Does Pacquiao flash a jab to throw a hook? Yes, but how serious are those Jabs his throws??? That's the kind of **** that got him counter against JMM, and Cotto.

2.) I would label Pacquiao style off fighting to a bubble bee.
"A bee is never as busy as it seems; it's just that it can't buzz any slower."

What that means in relation to Pacquiao IMO, is that alot of Pacquiao's offense similiar to a bee's is looking for a way in and a way out and a way back in.

The beauty of what he does is that Fighters get so caught up with him just moving around that they dont realise that he is not moving as fast as it seems, he is actually making the other fighter speed up their tempo so the one punch that Pacquiao would be the most vunerable too Pacquiao which is a "STIFF TIMED JAB" will be none existent because the fight has fell into the trap of trying move at the tempo of the bee. (JMM,Cotto, Morales) Therefore, eliminating their most effective weapon which is meeting pacquiao speed with a "WAITING JAB"

3.) i AGREE

4.) Too some extent I agree, but I would like to add what Roach does is teach fighters how to control distance and perfect range. There is almost no Efficiencist on inside fighting because this where the beauty of defense is showed. He teaches his fighters too tied up instead of teaching them how to hit off the break, or defend from getting hit off the break. The old analogy that the best defense is a good offense only works when the offense is working. This is why what we saw on saturday night was so important.
the lack of fundamentals like moving your head, leading back but not looking when you are getting hit. The basic rule in boxing that everyone learns when you box is breathing out and always looking at your target when you punch. Not holding your breath and looking at the ground. And most importantly learning to keep your eyes open during exchanges. This what is lacking in Bernabe, and sometimes lack in pacquiao.

Now I give roach credut he does teaches his fighters to hold their hands high, and elbows low.

5.) I agree

6.) More of their offense than their defense, if you are hitting you are not getting hit.

7.) I agree

[javielo]

You dude you know they're trying to figure out how to red k you in real life as we speak lol!

I lost my focus wow what an azzz

[Horus]

Horus again with his Bait thread. Sad so many people fall for it.

the title is bait i agree, but the context is far from it.

[Horus]

And to think I actually took this guy's threads seriously. Talk about pure hate.

how is hate, when it is true. Read the whole post.