Whose legacy will be hurt more if THE FIGHT fails to push through? Pac or Floyd jr?

[Dynamite Kid]

Get your facts right am a *****!!! And both fighters have something to lose period! You can rick Pac all you want, And Hate on Mayweather all you want but history would judge both fighters the same for not making the fight happen, And both fighters legacy suffers the same for the fight not coming off

They will both suffer to a degree, but one will suffer significantly more than the other, maybe Pac for not making the fight, but Floyd will suffer more because of what he has being doing over the last few years, not to mention that will probably mean he will be recognized as playing second fiddle to Pac historically(this era)

When there is 50 mil on table both have something to lose, but its heavily on Mayweather side in terms of reputation/legacy, thats why *****'s REALLY! want this to happen.

I hate on him because its a chance for him to eradicate all the ducking he has done, which does not sit right with me, not in a sport where styles often dictate the outcome of fights, you fight the best consistently in their prime you are eventually, in theory, going to come across a style that you did not anticipate would give you problems, which could conceivably lead to you losing the fight, if you dont lose and are able to overcome all that, then more power to you, shows how special you are, that you deserve mad props, thats how you really define who is great, by fighting the best consistently at their best, that is why Mayweather will always be considered a fraud in my eyes when compared to other great fighters.

[maguirre]

Floyd Mayweather Jr.

This extra PED testing demand is unprecedented in boxing history. The original compromise made by Pac was already far and above the current testing rule. Unlimited urine tests, 3 blood tests including one right after the fight. Agreeing to a 14-day cut-off is even way beyond the current testing rule. Mind you, they're demanding this to a man with no history of PED use.

If Floyd still doesn't accept it, people will say, "Is he really that scared of Pac?"

They won't blame Floyd. They will feel sorry for him.

I don't know about his legacy after that. I won't even care. I'd rather forget the whole thing. I'm not a fan of his.

[Dynamite Kid]

Pac initialy wanted a 30 day cut-off, then a 24 day cut-off. This was during the midst of some downright silly excuses why he couldn't submit himself to OST. We know undoubtedly testing must be random to be effective, that's not up for debate or discussion anymore as far as any rational and intelligent individual is concerned.

OST contrary to how Arum wanted it to look was known about in mid December. It was not a stipulation that Team Mayweather "sprang" at the 11th hour of negotiations to stymie the fight. Team Mayweather offered PAc a 14day cut-off in January as a compromise. Team Pacquaio initially denied they were ever offered a 14 day cut-off and subsequently recanted that afterr the "impartial" mediator, a friend of Bob Arum openly questioned their recollection of what was said in mediation. So the question becomes, why did Team PAcquaio feel the need to lie about a 14 day cut off being offered??

The point in bold is utterly laughable. Oscar lost 8 rds the first time. As if he would do better against a "counterpuncher" in a rematch? The ODLH vs Floyd fight wasn't even close. The rematch didn't happen because Oscar wanted the same deal as before. A deal that was no longer viable as Mayweather had beaten him, and more importantly proven he was the second biggest drawcard in the sport. Besides being laughable, this point and the point about JMM have othing to do with the topic we are discussing at hand. I could also point out Pac's history of imposing extraordinary penalties on fighters cutting weight, also taking some shine off his victories.

Sadly you are like the rest of the Pac fans here.....you don't seem to understand all of your logic is easily applied in the other direction.


For the last point, ii covered that alredy, but let me just leave you with this to think about..........

Why does the NSAC and other state commissions bother testing for PED's at all??? After all they too have no basis to think certain fighters are using PED's---> so why do they test. Aren't their reasons for testing also baseless if we use your logic?

That is all gobbledygoo, bottom line is, the only logic that needs to be applied is that Manny had never tested positive for anything, therefore any initial!!!! accusations/insinuations are baseless.

[empiricix]

Money has more HBO fights. They'll be remembered.

Pac dodging Shane will be remembered.

And the big money draw just like Ali, Tyson, Robinson, Hagler and Leonard will be remembered.

What people remember most about Ali, Tyson, Hagler and Leonard is not how much PPV buys they generated or how many HBO fights they had, but their mythical images as great fighters who fought great fights.

Pacquiao is somewhat of a mythical figure already at this point in time, what with his remarkable wins over the 3 Mexican greats plus his recent David-and-Goliath bouts against Dela Hoya, Hatton and Cotto. His myth will only grow over time until no one else remembers the details of those wins, only their spectacular outcomes. Further adding to this myth are his difficult-to-replicate 7-division championships and the Fighter of the Year award, in the very same decade where he co-existed with Floyd.

On the other hand, Mayweather's wins are less spectacular, and thus, not the stuff that future generations would tend to speak of in glowing terms. In addition, he is not the first nor the only fighter to retire undefeated (if he does retire undefeated). Even his highest-grossing fight with DLH can be overtaken in the future. Thus, Mayweather's only legacy would be his reputation as one of the most skillful boxers who ever fought, albeit one who failed to fulfill his true potential.

[Dynamite Kid]

Why does the NSAC and other state commissions bother testing for PED's at all??? After all they too have no basis to think certain fighters are using PED's---> so why do they test. Aren't their reasons for testing also baseless if we use your logic?

As for this part, huge difference when you strategically HL someone for further testing than what is ALREADY! in place, despite no evidence to suggest its needed.

[AFighter4U]

I believe that both legacies may be affected, but i also think that floyd's name will be sullied more.

The fact that Manny decided to go as far as 14 days and floyd jr is now demanding a 60-40 split, it would seem like floyd jr. is making more barriers to the fight whereas Pac is making more concessions.

Try putting yourself in Manny's shoes. Here's a man demeaning your accomplishments, calling you a one dimentional fighter, saying your afraid of him and demanding you give him the lion's share to fight him.

If you've gone through what pac has, and accomplished what he has done, with being a 7 division champion, 4 lineal division champion, with NO ONE IN HISTORY EVER ACHIEVING THAT, would you agree to conceding the lion's share to some braggart who constantly insults you and whose father and uncle regularly sullies your name with UNFOUNDED accusations of drug use?

I won't pretend to know anything about how the negotiations are going, but

IF and that is a big IF Manny decides to do what Roach mentioned and actually call Floyd jr's bluff and take the tests up to the fight and the fight STILL won't be made, then who'se to blame then?

(but that is assuming of course manny agrees to the testing up to the day of the fight)

[shade darkar]

As i see it, pacquiao wants the fight on november 13 against mayweather, so if floyd turns it down, i would say it would hurt floyds legacy more because pac is willing to fight and floyd isnt, if the fight doesnt happen of course.

[check hook]

That is all gobbledygoo, bottom line is, the only logic that needs to be applied is that Manny had never tested positive for anything, therefore any initial!!!! accusations/insinuations are baseless.

i already said that in numerous posts before (see below). Funny how i'm suddenly talking gobbeldgoo isn't it?

The claims were unfounded initially.....given Manny's reaction to OST, are they really so unfounded now??

Additionally when someone throws a bunch of mud your way, some of it is inevitably going to stick. Manny hasn't shown any interest in washing it off thus far.

At the end of the day OST is really no big deal. If we put aside emotions and personal allegiances, and act as rational and objective adults, it truly is no big deal at all. Factor in that OST (or some form) is likely to be the norm a decade from now, with many many fighters going through the process it's natural that many fans (especially the casual fans) will ask the inevitable question of why Pacquaio kicked up such a fuss about this issue 10 years ago.

The claims were unfounded initially.

Like that means anything, they were all found guilty except for EH.

Yes they are, it could be as much about pride as anything else, how you gonna insult somebody by asking them to do something that insinuates they are dirty when you have no proof what so ever?

Its okay for Floyd and his fans to think that, Floyd has not had Pac indirectly accuse him!! of taking drugs. Also, knowing how big Mayweather's ego is i would not be surprised to of seen him do the same had he been accused.

For $50 million you bet your ass. Do you think the media would have given him a pass the way they did Pacquaio if he didn't?

NO!!....... it was baseless. Put yourself in his shoes, he already thinks Pac is on something. Manny acting the way he has, turning fown $50 million over random OST, an easy process he himself has now gone through, surely it solidifies his belief that Pac is on something.....just as surely as it makes his "initially" baseless claims no longer baseless.

[Dynamite Kid]

I believe that both legacies may be affected, but i also think that floyd's name will be sullied more.

The fact that Manny decided to go as far as 14 days and floyd jr is now demanding a 60-40 split, it would seem like floyd jr. is making more barriers to the fight whereas Pac is making more concessions.

Try putting yourself in Manny's shoes. Here's a man demeaning your accomplishments, calling you a one dimentional fighter, saying your afraid of him and demanding you give him the lion's share to fight him.

If you've gone through what pac has, and accomplished what he has done, with being a 7 division champion, 4 lineal division champion, with NO ONE IN HISTORY EVER ACHIEVING THAT, would you agree to conceding the lion's share to some braggart who constantly insults you and whose father and uncle regularly sullies your name with UNFOUNDED accusations of drug use?

I won't pretend to know anything about how the negotiations are going, but

IF and that is a big IF Manny decides to do what Roach mentioned and actually call Floyd jr's bluff and take the tests up to the fight and the fight STILL won't be made, then who'se to blame then?

(but that is assuming of course manny agrees to the testing up to the day of the fight)

Precisely, yet you will get Mayweather fans on here trying to make out Mayweather would adhere to all that if the roles were reversed? GTFO!!!

Floyd has the biggest ego in Boxing bar-none

[Dynamite Kid]

surely it solidifies his belief that Pac is on something.....just as surely as it makes his "initially" baseless claims no longer baseless.

His belief was concocted by himself without evidence, also, just because Pac refuses to adhere to it, that does not equal Mayweather was right to accuse him to begin with, and therefore not guilty of baseless claims, after all, Pac has not been found guilty of ANYTHING!!

You might have a case if!! Pac had shown up in recent fights to have taken a banned substances, but he aint, not to mention Pac has agreed to testing up to a point, but now Mayweather also wants 60/40 by all accounts.