A Lesson About Independent PPV's

[ИATAS]

Another good point. But Hopkins doesn't have a fan base that would pay for those fights. Guys like Cotto do. It's the promoter's job to maximize their fighters' earnings.

If GBP put Hopkins/Orneales on PPV they would be virtually guaranteed to lose money.

If they would have stacked the undercard it could have got decent PPV numbers.

Cotto/Jennings did 225k PPV buys....as much as Pavlik/Hopkins, an HBO PPV.

Cotto/Jennings was also paired up with Pavlik/Rubio, so that PPV had TWO marque names, albeit two tune ups. If it was JUST cotto/Jennings you wouldn't have got those numbers.

Further we're talkin about old Mosley not in their prime cotto/pavlik.

If you can do it and make money, they're gonna do it.

I agree though...I thought how they handled Hopkins' tuneup was great. But dudes wanna make money, it's just the nature of the business.

Oh I certainly understand their mentality, I just don't agree with it. I don't think it's good for boxing.

[Eaner0919]

I get all that, good post. My whole thing is if the fight doesn't generate money (which obviously means there isn't a ton of public interest) make a better fight.

NO ONE was demanding Mosley vs Mora. That totally came out of the blue. How about Mosley vs Andre Berto? Mosley vs Paul Williams? Mosley vs Cotto II? etc

Make the fights that people actually want to see or demand and guess what? HBO/Showtime will pick the fight up.

but here is the thing

Mosley's market value has probably dropped even more since being white washed by Floyd. As it stood he wasn't much of a draw to begin with so you have a guy who makes a lot of money who isn't a draw wanting to fight on and HBO won't be able to pick up his tab.

going by your names I will break down what happens

Mosley vs

Berto- both now have high minimums with Berto's money being handle by Heymon, he gets about 7 figures per fight. Shane probably the same or close to it. Now with both getting a number that is high, both not being the draw HBO would hope for in a main event (especially at the price they would need to make it happen), and the PPV route really not being an option HBO will balk at this fight easily. So what does GBP do then? You can't make it an independent PPV it could actually draw LESS than the proposed Mosley Mora especially if Mora's minimum helps build an undercard. While this fight is better overall it's economically almost impossible to make

Williams- even worse. A literal no name fighter who has no homebase and probably has a similar minimum to Berto considering he too is managed by Heymon. PWill has really never had a steady HBO audience, often relying on stablemate Chris Arreola to bring in numbers so unless they make it a PPV with Arreola on it as well (and even then the shine has fallen off of Nightmare IMO) this fight too is doomed to be a good fight on paper but almost impossible to make

Cotto- interesting case here because money wise it could generate the most but the question is how much more than a Mora fight would it considering Cotto's minimums would be way higher than both Mosley and Mora, maybe even more than the two of the combined. A PPV could do more than the proposed Mora PPV but how much more and would it justify the minimums being asked for by both Cotto and Mosley? HBO would be taking a huge risk on this one.

[ИATAS]

Is it not safe to say, stop bitching and just don't order it?

Independent PPV's are better to me than fighters just fighting once or twice on Showtime or HBO each year. It's another way for the fighters WHO ARE DEVELOPED PROPERLY to line make money, stay active, and increase their public profile.

You can do all of that by fighting on ESPN or even on regular HBO or boxing after dark or even on an undercard.

The last part I disagree with though "increase their public profile." Being on a very small independent PPV which less than 100,000 people will actually see doesn't increase your profile. Fighting on free TV (ESPN) or on the larger networks like HBO & Showtime does.

[The Big Dunn]

but here is the thing

Mosley's market value has probably dropped even more since being white washed by Floyd. As it stood he wasn't much of a draw to begin with so you have a guy who makes a lot of money who isn't a draw wanting to fight on and HBO won't be able to pick up his tab.

going by your names I will break down what happens

Mosley vs

Berto- both now have high minimums with Berto's money being handle by Heymon, he gets about 7 figures per fight. Shane probably the same or close to it. Now with both getting a number that is high, both not being the draw HBO would hope for in a main event (especially at the price they would need to make it happen), and the PPV route really not being an option HBO will balk at this fight easily. So what does GBP do then? You can't make it an independent PPV it could actually draw LESS than the proposed Mosley Mora especially if Mora's minimum helps build an undercard. While this fight is better overall it's economically almost impossible to make

Williams- even worse. A literal no name fighter who has no homebase and probably has a similar minimum to Berto considering he too is managed by Heymon. PWill has really never had a steady HBO audience, often relying on stablemate Chris Arreola to bring in numbers so unless they make it a PPV with Arreola on it as well (and even then the shine has fallen off of Nightmare IMO) this fight too is doomed to be a good fight on paper but almost impossible to make

Cotto- interesting case here because money wise it could generate the most but the question is how much more than a Mora fight would it considering Cotto's minimums would be way higher than both Mosley and Mora, maybe even more than the two of the combined. A PPV could do more than the proposed Mora PPV but how much more and would it justify the minimums being asked for by both Cotto and Mosley? HBO would be taking a huge risk on this one.

Mosley is basically going to be used like Malignaggi, a well paid opponent.

[lefthook2daliva]

Good thread. I buy nearly every boxing PPV that comes down the pike, but never thought it through as to who makes what and how, though it seems fairly easy for any fan to make a good guess if one takes the trouble. I still think 40 bucks is too high for a JCC Jr headline card at this point, however. His last one against Duddy I woulda' probly paid 20 bucks for it for my TV or 5 bucks for a good stream. How bout' more PPV webcasts? Will a casino buy a webcast? How bout' sponsors? Seems like they'd want in albeit at reduced cost. Seems like a webcast would be more accessible and one might make up for in volume what he loses in unit price?

[Walt Liquor]

You can do all of that by fighting on ESPN or even on regular HBO or boxing after dark or even on an undercard.

The last part I disagree with though "increase their public profile." Being on a very small independent PPV which less than 100,000 people will actually see doesn't increase your profile. Fighting on free TV (ESPN) or on the larger networks like HBO & Showtime does.

But there are limited dates for ESPN and entire seasons with no fights at all and Versus shows almost no fights anymore.

One of my my objections to the way fights are televised today is promoters taking the easy way out and waiting for dates to open up for their fighters instead of building them up as real local or regional attractions. Some of these regional PPV's make excellent money and raise profiles by expanding public awareness as well as awareness that these regional attractions can generate money.

[The Big Dunn]

But there are limited dates for ESPN and entire seasons with no fights at all and Versus shows almost no fights anymore.

One of my my objections to the way fights are televised today is promoters taking the easy way out and waiting for dates to open up for their fighters instead of building them up as real local or regional attractions. Some of these regional PPV's make excellent money and raise profiles by expanding public awareness as well as awareness that these regional attractions can generate money.

Good point. Besdies, ESPN doesn't pay much. Glen Johnson made like 10G's his last fight.

[Walt Liquor]

Good point. Besdies, ESPN doesn't pay much. Glen Johnson made like 10G's his last fight.

At least he fights for 10g's, instead of fighting once or twice or year.


Andre Ward can't sell out his hometown, Pwill can't see viagra to Hugh Heffner.
WTF???/ Neither are boring fighters and both could have been built into regional attractions. I like watching both guys and I see no reason why they couldn't be going Andre Ward like numbers in Florida (Berto), or Pwill (S. Carolina or the ATL).

Someone would have had to care and lose some $ early in their career, instead they get stale waiting for their next HBO fight and have to BEG for big fights.

[RoyJonesJrp4pno1]

Mosley will make over a million against Mora. No doubt about it.

He's coming off being part of an event that generated 1.4 million PPV buys.

Mayweather is the reason for that number. Shane Mosley is not an A side draw. If he was such a draw this fight would be on regualr HBO. Fighters who fight on HBO are going to be paid more money than fighters who 30,000 buys on an independent PPV.

[DC Fight Fan]

ESPN will pay between 25,000 and 30,000 for a show plus make the promoter provide tv quality lighting which will cost at least another 4,000.

SHOBOX pays between 50,000 and 60,000 a show and the promoter must provide lighting.

Showtime Championship Boxing is negotiable and will start in the 250,000 range

HBO BAD will pay starting around 300,000

HBO Championship Boxing is the big money