Without the Pacquiao hate. Can anybody here deny Greatness to Freddie Roach?

[| THE KING |]

I'm not discrediting Pac achievements. If you take it like that its on you. Never taking it personal just don't know why any question about pac is equated to disrespect by his fans on this boord.

Ok. Fans of any fighter would look at it the same way. Proof is all over this messageboard.

Smart matchmaking is not just who you pick and chose. For example Manny was smart to fight Morales again instead of Zahir Raheem. More money less risk. When manny fought david diaz he was not the best lw in the world. But he got equal money for less risk. Cotto at 145 instead of 147. ODH at 147 instead of 154. Hatton after floyd Ko'd him. Big money fights where manny's team used its negotiating position wisely.

I get what you are saying. Point taken. If you can't even admit that 'smart matchmaking' or 'careful matchmaking' is discrediting a fighters resume, we will just have to agree to disagree.

[| THE KING |]

There's no doubt he's a great match-maker.

A great trainer? I'm not so sure.

Who do you see as a great trainer?

[nelsoncm]

I'm not discrediting Pac achievements. If you take it like that its on you. Never taking it personal just don't know why any question about pac is equated to disrespect by his fans on this boord.

Smart matchmaking is not just who you pick and chose. For example Manny was smart to fight Morales again instead of Zahir Raheem. More money less risk. When manny fought david diaz he was not the best lw in the world. But he got equal money for less risk. Cotto at 145 instead of 147. ODH at 147 instead of 154. Hatton after floyd Ko'd him. Big money fights where manny's team used its negotiating position wisely.

Zahir's win against Morales doesn't change the fact that he was mediocre against Freitas and boring as hell too.

Manny coming up from 135 to 154 to fight Oscar... funny and illogical don't you think? And this after Oscar preached to the world "what was I doing at 154? This is my best weight. I feel great at this weight (147)!" Who would have known Manny would **** Oscar? It seems everyone on this forum bet on Oscar killing Manny with that left hook.

[The Big Dunn]

I get what you are saying. Point taken. If you can't even admit that 'smart matchmaking' or 'careful matchmaking' is discrediting a fighters resume, we will just have to agree to disagree.

What if I say it like this. Floyd fighting gatti who wasnt the best 140 lb for ppv money. floyd fighting Hatton when Hatton is coming up to 147. Floyd going to 154 to make $25 mil vs ODh rather than $8 mil to fight marg at 147. Floyd fighting Baldomir for 147 lineal champ instead of Marg. floyd fighting Castillo (lineal champ) at 135 in 1st fight at weight.

[nelsoncm]

Who do you see as a great trainer?

Floyd Sr.???

He brought Hatton to the mountains to train, taught him to look up the lights in round 2 and make him ponder on his career up to this point.

[Chups]

If there was a TRAINER OF THE DECADE award he would have taken it.

3 Trainer of the years for the last decade is a great accomplishment.

[| THE KING |]

I get what you are saying. Point taken. If you can't even admit that 'smart matchmaking' or 'careful matchmaking' is discrediting a fighters resume, we will just have to agree to disagree.

What if I say it like this. Floyd fighting gatti who wasnt the best 140 lb for ppv money. floyd fighting Hatton when Hatton is coming up to 147. Floyd going to 154 to make $25 mil vs ODh rather than $8 mil to fight marg at 147. Floyd fighting Baldomir for 147 lineal champ instead of Marg. floyd fighting Castillo (lineal champ) at 135 in 1st fight at weight.

That is discrediting his resume as well. And when those points are brought up to fans of a specific fighter, a debate usually arises.

[| THE KING |]

Floyd Sr.???

He brought Hatton to the mountains to train, taught him to look up the lights in round 2 and make him ponder on his career up to this point.

I can understand if someone said that freddie wasn't the best trainer of our era.. but to question his greatness? Some of these dudes are ridiculous.

[The Big Dunn]

Zahir's win against Morales doesn't change the fact that he was mediocre against Freitas and boring as hell too.

Manny coming up from 135 to 154 to fight Oscar... funny and illogical don't you think? And this after Oscar preached to the world "what was I doing at 154? This is my best weight. I feel great at this weight (147)!" Who would have known Manny would **** Oscar? It seems everyone on this forum bet on Oscar killing Manny with that left hook.

Exactly! Business wise any of these decision would be ****** IMO. The point is Roach is a great trainer. In manny's case he has a great trainer and a HOF matchmaker. I think matchmaking has been a strong element of manny's success. doesn't take anything away from Roach.

[The Big Dunn]

That is discrediting his resume as well. And when those points are brought up to fans of a specific fighter, a debate usually arises.

That's because some posters just jump at anything. I honestly thought you were like that at first. Not every critical point is negative. I thought the point here is to discuss things.

The point is as good as any trainer is, he must be able to get his fighter to beat their opponent. Roach has done wonders with Manny. But don't discount the fact that top rank and bob goodman are SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY to Murad Muhammad.