PAC's workrate, weight, speed & power

[Mr. Chago]

Well since nobody can seem to answer the question or stay on topic. No fighter has ever done it be fore Pac did it.

Normally as you get bigger, your activity decreases. I can understand the power increase, but the speed, stamina and punch resistance I don't get. Id understand the punch resistance if he were either still fighting small men or lite puncers. But he's doing this against naturally bigger men and harder punchers.

I see a lot of "maybes, it could bes and what ifs" when it comes to these increases. Like the one where "Maybe he feels strong because he doesn't have to cut weight" well Maybe that why he felt weak against Morales also, blood had little to nothing to do with it, no mention of that I see.

But if Freddy is such a guru, why didn't he move Manny up sooner if he knew cutting weight made Manny weak?
If its now Freddys logic "A guy needs to fight closer to his natural weight" where was this logic before when Manny was "draining"?

Seems to me something has changed, ain't no if, ands or maybes about that.

Bigger= less active,
Heavier= less stamina
Bigger and heavier= decrease in speed.

That's natural

That is precisely my point.

[Khalid X]

Well if you are referring to Manny keeping his speed and power while moving up in weight, I have address this several times

Manny is only 5lbs-7lbs bigger (fight night weight) than he was when he was fighting Morales back in 05, so It only makes sense that he has the same speed he had back then. As far as power, what I see is fighters such as Cotto and Hatton not respecting his power (something Barrera, Morales, and Marquez did) and eventually getting overwhelmed and stopped as a result. As far as workrate, Pac has always had high stamina and punch out put. If you follow the lower weight classes, then you will notice all of those guys have higher punch outputs than guys at WW and Manny has conditioned himself well enough to allow him to maintain it at higher weight classes.

FWIW I guarantee you that Paul Williams can go fight at SMW and his punch output will be just as high as it was when he was fighting at 145.

[Khalid X]

Well since nobody can seem to answer the question or stay on topic. No fighter has ever done it be fore Pac did it.

Normally as you get bigger, your activity decreases. I can understand the power increase, but the speed, stamina and punch resistance I don't get. Id understand the punch resistance if he were either still fighting small men or lite puncers. But he's doing this against naturally bigger men and harder punchers.

I see a lot of "maybes, it could bes and what ifs" when it comes to these increases. Like the one where "Maybe he feels strong because he doesn't have to cut weight" well Maybe that why he felt weak against Morales also, blood had little to nothing to do with it, no mention of that I see.

But if Freddy is such a guru, why didn't he move Manny up sooner if he knew cutting weight made Manny weak?
If its now Freddys logic "A guy needs to fight closer to his natural weight" where was this logic before when Manny was "draining"?

Seems to me something has changed, ain't no if, ands or maybes about that.

Bigger= less active,
Heavier= less stamina
Bigger and heavier= decrease in speed.

That's natural

Loss in speed and stamina is a result of adding muscle (something Manny hasn't done) not fighting at your natural weight.


Even if you add muscles there are tons of examples throughout all of sports so don't give me that garbage of it being unnatural.



Lebron James went from 210lbs to 260lb if not higher and is just as fast, quick, athletic and his stamina is light years better than it was when he first got in the league (I have followed lebron since he was 15 years old btw)

and if you want boxing examples

Roy looked just as fast, hit just as hard, and had the same punch output at LHW as he did at LMW.

Duran had the same punch output, hit even harder, and at 135 and above than he did when he fought at Bantamweight.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Manny is doing something expectional, but not something unprecedented.

[TriggerItch]

joe calzaghe through a good 950+(nearly 1000) punches against roy jones at lightheavy after just previously coming up from 168

i think it was the most punches calzaghe had ever thrown? but i could be mistaken

[SCEN3RY]

Well if you are referring to Manny keeping his speed and power while moving up in weight, I have address this several times

Manny is only 5lbs-7lbs bigger (fight night weight) than he was when he was fighting Morales back in 05, so It only makes sense that he has the same speed he had back then. As far as power, what I see is fighters such as Cotto and Hatton not respecting his power (something Barrera, Morales, and Marquez did) and eventually getting overwhelmed and stopped as a result. As far as workrate, Pac has always had high stamina and punch out put. If you follow the lower weight classes, then you will notice all of those guys have higher punch outputs than guys at WW and Manny has conditioned himself well enough to allow him to maintain it at higher weight classes.

FWIW I guarantee you that Paul Williams can go fight at SMW and his punch output will be just as high as it was when he was fighting at 145.

good observation, Manny has fought in and above 140 for at least the last 6 years, people just don't pay attention to "fight night" weight...

[trainhard_187]

The one reason why its hard for some people to believe that Pac has been dominating these bigger is because hes short. Short as in 5'4"..

Pac use to come down to featherweight and super featherweight but he would starve his self to make those weights. Even at 135 Pac still would have to eat less to make that weight just like with other boxers who have to make the lower weight class..

Pac has had that punch and speed since Featherweight, knocking out and dropping his opponents. During fight night he comes into the ring at around 140-147 which is close to WW, so now thats the reason why Pac fights at Welter, so he doesnt have to starve himself to make weight..

Pac is just a SHORT Welterweight, which to some people its hard to believe hes knocking out bigger opponents cause hes a SHORT DUDE...

[Mr. Chago]

Loss in speed and stamina is a result of adding muscle (something Manny hasn't done) not fighting at your natural weight.


Even if you add muscles there are tons of examples throughout all of sports so don't give me that garbage of it being unnatural.



Lebron James went from 210lbs to 260lb if not higher and is just as fast, quick, athletic and his stamina is light years better than it was when he first got in the league (I have followed lebron since he was 15 years old btw)

and if you want boxing examples

Roy looked just as fast, hit just as hard, and had the same punch output at LHW as he did at LMW.

Duran had the same punch output, hit even harder, and at 135 and above than he did when he fought at Bantamweight.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Manny is doing something expectional, but not something unprecedented.

What are you talking about, have you seen a photo of Manny @ 130 lbs and @ 147 lbs....no muscle gained...wtf?

[Jack Napier]

depends on when they move up
some fighters do it for business reasons
some must because they outgrow their division
when fighters struggle to cut weight, they look better after a jump
some good examples have been given

[Doctor_Tenma]

Well if you are referring to Manny keeping his speed and power while moving up in weight, I have address this several times

Manny is only 5lbs-7lbs bigger (fight night weight) than he was when he was fighting Morales back in 05, so It only makes sense that he has the same speed he had back then. As far as power, what I see is fighters such as Cotto and Hatton not respecting his power (something Barrera, Morales, and Marquez did) and eventually getting overwhelmed and stopped as a result. As far as workrate, Pac has always had high stamina and punch out put. If you follow the lower weight classes, then you will notice all of those guys have higher punch outputs than guys at WW and Manny has conditioned himself well enough to allow him to maintain it at higher weight classes.

FWIW I guarantee you that Paul Williams can go fight at SMW and his punch output will be just as high as it was when he was fighting at 145.

Your comparing muscle to water weight.

[PensionKiller]

Well since nobody can seem to answer the question or stay on topic. No fighter has ever done it be fore Pac did it.

Normally as you get bigger, your activity decreases. I can understand the power increase, but the speed, stamina and punch resistance I don't get. Id understand the punch resistance if he were either still fighting small men or lite puncers. But he's doing this against naturally bigger men and harder punchers.

I see a lot of "maybes, it could bes and what ifs" when it comes to these increases. Like the one where "Maybe he feels strong because he doesn't have to cut weight" well Maybe that why he felt weak against Morales also, blood had little to nothing to do with it, no mention of that I see.

But if Freddy is such a guru, why didn't he move Manny up sooner if he knew cutting weight made Manny weak?
If its now Freddys logic "A guy needs to fight closer to his natural weight" where was this logic before when Manny was "draining"?

Seems to me something has changed, ain't no if, ands or maybes about that.

Bigger= less active,
Heavier= less stamina
Bigger and heavier= decrease in speed.

That's natural

Pac and Roach were concerned with the move up. Heck he wasn't that impressive VS Diaz at the start with power. The speed was there though. Why you think they wanted 145 VS Cotto? Pac was enevr gonna reach 147...

Now they realise he can do good here.

As he went up, his speed clearly slowed down. Just look at his shadow boxing from 126 to 147.

As for less stamina, I am sure he seems mroe tired by round 12 or at the end fo each round tbh.

I need to watch Cotto again.