Comments Thread For: Juan Carlos Gomez Update; Helenius-Bertino; Kristjansen

[TheGreatA]

Well, if you include Nelson I suppose you're right. I regard him more as an American, he made his big name there and I think he had all his fights there. I know he was born in Denmark, but, I think came to America as a kid. I'll have to ask Battler about him.

I was thinking of local European fighters who learned to box in Europe, and were more or less established before coming to America,

I KNOW Raa*** was an Estonian, I actually wrote it in my post, saying that he came from not very far away from Finland. I just don't know what happened...??? Maybe I deleted it, trying to "improve" my post, do that sometimes. I've had much computer trouble lately and was off line for 2-3 days just a few days ago. I never knew until then how much I appreciated having a computer.

Used to hear a lot about Pekka Kokkonen, who, I think could have been better with better management. I was very much into European boxing in those days, growing up, as I did, in Ireland.

No, I think I just missed the part. I'm not sure if I'd consider Estonia as part of the Nordic countries but Raa*** is certainly the best Baltic fighter.

I agree about Nelson being more of an American fighter as he spent most of his life there. Out of Nordic boxers who were taught their craft here, the best are probably Johansson, recently Kessler, and of course the Norwegian Pete Sanstol if he counts as learned to box in Norway.

Honorable mention to Gunnar Bärlund, top ranked Finnish heavyweight in the 1930's.

I've seen the fight Kokkonen had with Eddie Cotton. He was good but unfortunately fought in a competitive era without wise management as you said. Not as bad as Olli Mäki being fed to the lions after only 10 professional fights though against featherweight champ Davey Moore. It was a bad beating he suffered but he went onto have a good pro career.

[The Hammer]

All I said was that Bertino isn't very good.

You discredited his win over Brewster:

"I'm not sure if he (Brewster) has anything left"
"Brewster should have retired after losing to Klitschko in my opinion"
"He hasn't been the same after the Lyakhovich fight"
"a win over Brewster at this point doesn't necessarily prove he is world class yet."

[TheGreatA]

You discredited his win over Brewster:

"I'm not sure if he (Brewster) has anything left"
"Brewster should have retired after losing to Klitschko in my opinion"
"He hasn't been the same after the Lyakhovich fight"
"a win over Brewster at this point doesn't necessarily prove he is world class yet."

I say it like it is. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Brewster is a former world champ, a very good name on Helenius's record and a good test for him at that point in Helenius's career but he's well spent as a world class fighter. Helenius doesn't need to step up to that level yet and I've never said that he should. It's just that I thought his next opponent didn't look very good based on what I've seen of him. That doesn't mean the fight shouldn't happen.

[edgarg]

No, I think I just missed the part. I'm not sure if I'd consider Estonia as part of the Nordic countries but Raa*** is certainly the best Baltic fighter.

I agree about Nelson being more of an American fighter as he spent most of his life there. Out of Nordic boxers who were taught their craft here, the best are probably Johansson, recently Kessler, and of course the Norwegian Pete Sanstol if he counts as learned to box in Norway.

Honorable mention to Gunnar Bärlund, top ranked Finnish heavyweight in the 1930's.

I've seen the fight Kokkonen had with Eddie Cotton. He was good but unfortunately fought in a competitive era without wise management as you said. Not as bad as Olli Mäki being fed to the lions after only 10 professional fights though against featherweight champ Davey Moore. It was a bad beating he suffered but he went onto have a good pro career.

Yes, I know what you mean about Estonia not being Northern Europe. Strctly speaking it's a Baltic state, but in Ireland we used to regard it, and the other Baltic states as being part of Northern Europe. My late father and all my late mother's family came from next door, Latvia, from the banks of the Dvina, and always used to talk about the cold winters etc. So, for us it was north.

I remember Gunnar Barlund, I have an old Ring magazine somewhere, with, I think, his picture on the cover. Did Johannsen ever give a proper explanation of why he was DQ in the final of the Olympics. Was he fighting Ed Sanders from the US? All i remember about it, was that the ref said he wasn't "trying". But I never heard what Ingemar himself said.

Wasn't it he who talked about his "Toonder" meaning his right hand KO power??

[TheGreatA]

Yes, I know what you mean about Estonia not being Northern Europe. Strctly speaking it's a Baltic state, but in Ireland we used to regard it, and the other Baltic states as being part of Northern Europe. My late father and all my late mother's family came from next door, Latvia, from the banks of the Dvina, and always used to talk about the cold winters etc. So, for us it was north.

I agree the Baltic states can be regarded as part of Northern Europe. In here, when talking about Nordic countries, it usually means Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark though, perhaps Iceland too.

I guess I'd go with both the Nordic and Baltic countries being part of Northern Europe. I sometimes get the terms mixed up.

I remember Gunnar Barlund, I have an old Ring magazine somewhere, with, I think, his picture on the cover. Did Johannsen ever give a proper explanation of why he was DQ in the final of the Olympics. Was he fighting Ed Sanders from the US? All i remember about it, was that the ref said he wasn't "trying". But I never heard what Ingemar himself said.

Wasn't it he who talked about his "Toonder" meaning his right hand KO power??

Here's the cover of the Ring Magazine with Bärlund:



Bärlund's best wins were probably upsetting Buddy Baer and avenging his earlier loss in the Olympics to Alberto Lovell.

His explanation for being DQ'd was that his opponent Sanders outweighed him by 40 lbs and that he was waiting for the bigger man to tire until the third round when he would use his right hand. The referee disqualified him for running and "not trying" before that could happen though. Considering that he used pretty much the same style in the pros, using footwork to stay away for a couple of rounds until setting up his right, I wouldn't necessarily doubt his story.

Here's film of it:



Ingo called his right hand "Toonder and Lightning" yes. It was also sometimes called Ingo's "Bingo". Great right hand.