**2002 Jose Luis Castillo vs 2008 Manny Pacquiao @ 135...?

[IMDAZED]

I'm in the minority then, because never for one second did I consider Morales a shot fighter in his second fight. I'm a huge Morales fan and every other Morales fan on here agrees that Morales was not shot (no shot fighter fights like that) in the second fight. To each his own I guess, but I have followed Morales his entire career, and IMO there was no way he was shot in the second fight.

I have followed Morales his entire career as well. And was a big fan. Let's get some things straight here. Morales was already considered well past his prime going into the first fight with Pacquiao. In fact, he was a heavy underdog. I remember because I picked him to win and win convincingly. That was his last hurrah. Even a past-prime Morales would've won more than one round against Zahir Raheem. But he couldn't. And then was forced to make a weight he clearly was having serious, serious issues making. In other words, he was done and your def in the minority.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Also since Pac got older and started to grow into his body. And, got his man strength that I think he takes his body punching way much better now.

People make too much of a thing when he was a teenager and got KO'd by a body punch. But, he is much older and stronger now. That I think he can take body punches.

Hell he has somebody with a stick hitting his body up for like a minute. **** is crazy.

I havent really seen him tested to the body though. Everyone heads hunt against him. If he fights Floyd we will see how hes developed the ability to take body punches well. Because Floyd like he does all lefties will attack the body.

[IMDAZED]

I havent really seen him tested to the body though. Everyone heads hunt against him. If he fights Floyd we will see how hes developed the ability to take body punches well. Because Floyd like he does all lefties will attack the body.

Marquez hurt him to the body a bit.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Marquez hurt him to the body a bit.

Thats true forgot about that. I was thinking about the Diaz, Hatton, Oscar, Cotto and Clottey stretch.

Thats something Ill have a close eye on if he fights Mayweather is how he deals with those crisp, accurate body shots. Every Lefty Floyd has fought got worked over to the body.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Thats true forgot about that. I was thinking about the Diaz, Hatton, Oscar, Cotto and Clottey stretch.

Thats something Ill have a close eye on if he fights Mayweather is how he deals with those crisp, accurate body shots. Every Lefty Floyd has fought got worked over to the body.

In that gif Shane is acting like that don't hurt

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

In that gif Shane is acting like that don't hurt

Yeah he tried to play it off. That punch happened so fast the whole HBO commentary crew missed it. I caught it though I jumped up like "he hurt!!" lol.

Watch Floyd plant his left foot to get power on that right hand. Then he twisted into Shanes body.This dude is sick man. Then he didnt even look when when he threw it. Threw Shane off completely. Im trying to tell people that when Pac and Martinez get in the ring with this man they are in for a treat.

[Khalid X]

I have followed Morales his entire career as well. And was a big fan. Let's get some things straight here. Morales was already considered well past his prime going into the first fight with Pacquiao. In fact, he was a heavy underdog. I remember because I picked him to win and win convincingly. That was his last hurrah. Even a past-prime Morales would've won more than one round against Zahir Raheem. But he couldn't. And then was forced to make a weight he clearly was having serious, serious issues making. In other words, he was done and your def in the minority.

Why would you say Morales was done going into the fight? He had just lost a close fight to Barrera. Also what happened to Morales was that 130 was his limit and 135 was just too much. Him losing at 135 is the same reason Marquez will lose to anyone in the top 5-8 at LWW. The size combined with them going beyond their peek weight is just too much to overcome with skill.

The reason I don't or never saw him as past his prime is because I never bought into all the HBO hype or line of thinking when it comes to fighters. Not saying you are, but just because it was the popular thing to say doesn't mean it's true. No past his prime fighter puts on the back to back performances he did against Barrera and Pacquiao...I don't care what anyone says.

There is a reason he lost to Raheem and it wasn't because he was past it.

[IMDAZED]

Why would you say Morales was done going into the fight? He had just lost a close fight to Barrera. Also what happened to Morales was that 130 was his limit and 135 was just too much. Him losing at 135 is the same reason Marquez will lose to anyone in the top 5-8 at LWW. The size combined with them going beyond their peek weight is just too much to overcome with skill.

Actually, I said the consensus was that Morales was past his prime going into the first fight. Again, you're judging off hindsight. Barrera was thought to be slipping while Morales had been riding an incredible hot streak where he was churning out HOF performance after HOF performance. Morales was expected to beat Barrera convincingly that third time. But instead he got off to a very, very slow start and looked lethargic even as he turned it on late--and lost. Pacquiao was expected to blitz Morales for these reasons alone.

Second, Morales moved up because he was seriously struggling to make 130. That's it. Even a past-prime 130lb Morales could have gained half a pound, fought a 135lb Raheem and won--or made it close.

The reason I don't or never saw him as past his prime is because I never bought into all the HBO hype or line of thinking when it comes to fighters. Not saying you are, but just because it was the popular thing to say doesn't mean it's true. No past his prime fighter puts on the back to back performances he did against Barrera and Pacquiao...I don't care what anyone says.

You don't need any HBO hype. Just know that Morales got his ass beat the **** up by Zahir Raheem. And if you don't think he was past it (wtf? Did you watch the fight?) then happily remain in your minority.

[Khalid X]

Actually, I said the consensus was that Morales was past his prime going into the first fight. Again, you're judging off hindsight. Barrera was thought to be slipping while Morales had been riding an incredible hot streak where he was churning out HOF performance after HOF performance. Morales was expected to beat Barrera convincingly that third time. But instead he got off to a very, very slow start and looked lethargic even as he turned it on late--and lost. Pacquiao was expected to blitz Morales for these reasons alone.

I don't see how Barrera was thought to be slipping because even after the Pac fight he still went on an impressive run against great fighters. The fact is Morales and Barrera are just two fighters that will always have close fights no matter what. They are peers in the purest sense and I always stated neither would dominate the other.

FWIW, people said the same thing going into the Barrera-Hamed fight (Im a huge hamed fan and I drank the kool-aid as well). It was all this talk about what junior jones did to him and how he was slipping this and that, but we saw what happened. People have always had a bad habit of underestimating Barrera and outside of his lost to Pac he looked just as impressive as Morales did during that same time frame.

Second, Morales moved up because he was seriously struggling to make 130. That's it. Even a past-prime 130lb Morales could have gained half a pound, fought a 135lb Raheem and won--or made it close.

Naah, and I say this because there is a reason no Mexican has ever won a title in 4 different weight classes. Morales peak was at 130 (even if he outgrew the division). I could never see Morales at any point in his career making the move up to 135 and being effective.

You don't need any HBO hype. Just know that Morales got his ass beat the **** up by Zahir Raheem. And if you don't think he was past it (wtf? Did you watch the fight?) then happily remain in your minority.

no because I'm not gonna punish Morales to failing to do something no Mexican fighter has ever done. I with Morales frame never once did I think he could be effective at lightweight.

Also here is some food for thought, when has a guy, who was consider average at best (speed wise) for his class, gone up against a guy that was not only bigger than him, but lightyears faster than him, and still won? Not saying it hasn't happened, but I have never seen nor heard of it happening.

IMO by moving up Morales gave up every physical advantage and his skill wasn't enough to over come it. That's the reason he lost IMO

[$Bullsfam$]

Pac would be to easily lured into fighting on the inside where Castillo out works him. I think it would be a very close fight. Split decision probably. Would love to say Castillo but I really don't know. Could definitely see him winning though.