**2002 Jose Luis Castillo vs 2008 Manny Pacquiao @ 135...?

[Khalid X]

An example of this is Manny fighting Sergio Martinez at 154. Pac would more than likely lose every round as well. It's not because he is past it etc, but because he will be giving up every physical advantage. Extra weight will make him slower. Seeing that Martinez is the bigger man will help with punch resistence, and I could go on and on.

It's not so much that Pac would be past it or Martinez is better, it's just at some point everyone reaches a peak. Morales was at 130 regardless if he outgrew the class.

BTW this is also the reason I believe Marquez loses to everyone at 140 because 135 is his peak.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

An example of this is Manny fighting Sergio Martinez at 154. Pac would more than likely lose every round as well. It's not because he is past it etc, but because he will be giving up every physical advantage. Extra weight will make him slower. Seeing that Martinez is the bigger man will help with punch resistence, and I could go on and on.

It's not so much that Pac would be past it or Martinez is better, it's just at some point everyone reaches a peak. Morales was at 130 regardless if he outgrew the class.

BTW this is also the reason I believe Marquez loses to everyone at 140 because 135 is his peak.

Is that why you pick Martinez to beat Floyd?

[IMDAZED]

I don't see how Barrera was thought to be slipping because even after the Pac fight he still went on an impressive run against great fighters. The fact is Morales and Barrera are just two fighters that will always have close fights no matter what. They are peers in the purest sense and I always stated neither would dominate the other.

Actually, he had only one fight after the Pacquiao bout so I don't know what you're talking about. We are talking about the general opinion prior to the third Morales bout, right?

Oh and BTW, he was thought to be slipping because he got his ass kicked and then later admitted that he had a metal plate put in his head. There were a lot of stories surrounding Barrera at the time.

FWIW, people said the same thing going into the Barrera-Hamed fight (Im a huge hamed fan and I drank the kool-aid as well). It was all this talk about what junior jones did to him and how he was slipping this and that, but we saw what happened. People have always had a bad habit of underestimating Barrera and outside of his lost to Pac he looked just as impressive as Morales did during that same time frame.

That's nice, but not relevant here. Different time, different take.

Naah, and I say this because there is a reason no Mexican has ever won a title in 4 different weight classes. Morales peak was at 130 (even if he outgrew the division). I could never see Morales at any point in his career making the move up to 135 and being effective.

So you admit Morales outgrew the division. The division he left. Then had to go back down to. . We're making progress here.

Also here is some food for thought, when has a guy, who was consider average at best (speed wise) for his class, gone up against a guy that was not only bigger than him, but lightyears faster than him, and still won? Not saying it hasn't happened, but I have never seen nor heard of it happening.

Roberto Duran did it pretty well but that's Duran. Then again, doing it at the end of your career is never a good idea. Getting your ass kicked then being forced to move back down is an even worse one.

IMO by moving up Morales gave up every physical advantage and his skill wasn't enough to over come it. That's the reason he lost IMO

Whatever, man. Take a poll - Erik Morales was donezo when he fought Pac the second time. Donezo.

[Khalid X]

Is that why you pick Martinez to beat Floyd?

Yes and a few other reasons, but this is the main one. At 147 Mayweather beats him. I just can't see Floyd having the power and speed at that weight 155-160 to deal with Martinez. Least we forget, while Floyd fought DLH at 154, he actually weighed 150. Now he could come in fight night weighing 155 (the weight I think he fought Shane at) but anything more, he will actually be hurting himself.

With that said, Martinez will be 166 fight night, just as fast with a longer reach and faster footspeed. Skillwise May is better, but the size may be too much.

BTW Floyd is a very talented fighter, and he might shock me, but I just don't see that happening.

[$Bullsfam$]

Whatever, man. Take a poll - Erik Morales was donezo when he fought Pac the second time. Donezo.

I don't think he was done. But was definitely past his prime.

[Khalid X]

And also burner, I don't see Floyd hurting him either. Regardless if Cintron is a b1tch or not, he still has power. Martinez has been in the ring with heavy handed guys like Cintron and Pavlik and has been hit several times by them. They weren't able to stop him or even keep him from doing what he does in the ring, so I doubt Floyd will. I'm not saying Floyd is feather fisted, I just think a 166lb Martinez, that has been in the ring with big punchers, can take anything Floyd dishes out.

[IMDAZED]

I don't think he was done. But was definitely past his prime.

That's a fair assumption - not one I necessarily agree with as I was shocked at Morales' condition for Raheem. But let's say he was just past his prime. Couple that with him killing himself to make weight at his advanced age and what do you get?

[$Bullsfam$]

That's a fair assumption - not one I necessarily agree with as I was shocked at Morales' condition for Raheem. But let's say he was just past his prime. Couple that with him killing himself to make weight at his advanced age and what do you get?

2 Pacman beatdowns haha

I think he's done being able to compete with the best. But he can still win so he's not done yet but I still think it's a waste of time.

[GoogleMe]

And, IF Pac takes the body punching well?

I agree that he can have been improved, but that kid has been to the ground a few times, because of exactly that reason!

[DLT]

Actually Emanuel Augusts is better than an average fighter. Much better than his record indicates. To not let his record fool you. Average he is not. And, it was a LW fight.

Floyd had 5 fights at LW not 4, 5 The Augustus fight was he first not Castillo.

Average? Pfft.

Come on jro, dont play me like that. Im a huge Augustus fan and respect his skills but the motha ****a has like 30 losses. You can act like that **** dont exist all you want but it does. I dont give a **** how good Floyd looks. If his ass was 21-20 right now then he would be an average fighter. Sure Augustus has gotten robbed a few times but he also lost to some guys straight up who were less than average themselves. Just because he has some nice skills dont mean you have to make him out to be something he's not.

The fact is if you fight him then you have a good chance of winning no matter how good of a fighter you are and if you dont think that is average then something is wrong with you, skills or not. Infact, his ass just lost to a 13-0 project and was dropped. He has even more losses than Ive given him credit for. Again, I would never call him a bum or garbage because he can fight and does have skills but as Parcells says, you are what your record says you are. He maybe as one writer said, the best ever fighter with 30 losses but his ass still has 30 losses and some of them were against to guys who only an average guy would lose to. Maybe when he gets to 40 losses, you will still be fine with it