Hatton Pound for Pound?

[The Fix]

How is:

Santos in the top 20? (a no-contest and sketchy win with Margarito don't merit being a top 20 fighter. The only other game guy he fought was Kofi Jantuah and Kofi blasted out Santos in 3 rounds...at least put him under Margarito for goodness sake)

Barrera over Morales? (Morales just convincingly beat the guy that dominated and KOed Barrera. Marco has beaten Erik twice but both were close and I don't think Morales should be lower simply because he's lost to MAB twice. Barreras lost to Jones 2x also...and Morales has done more with his career.)

JLC above Corrales? (Corrales just KOed Castillo. Two other impressive wins behind it and moving up to his third weight class soon should certainly put him above Castillo. Castillo has lost to lesser opponents whereas Corrales has only lost to elite fighters.)

I also don't agree with Pac above R. Marquez, and Cory Spinks shouldn't still be in the top 10-12 guys.

Just my humble opinions. Also get ready to click that donate button and hand over 20 mil come tommorow.

santos is a solid fighter and is so under rated. margartio looked awsome against cintron but in his fight with santos not so much. santos was leading at the time of the stoppage on two of the three scorecards. santos beat margarito fair and square.

mab is above morales cause he won there last fight and is 2-1 against him. i cant rate morales higher than mab for the simple fact that the two have fought three times and marco walked out of the ring twice with the victory.

jlc imo is the better fighter and was winning that fight until chico landed a miracle bomb that staggered jlc. jlc also faired much better against pbf, chico was blown out and arguably jlc beat pbf.

cory spinks is still a very good fighter, i believe he will be the best at 154 and will prove to everbody he isnt done. so he lost to zab judah that aint a knock on spinks cause when judah is on imo only pbf's skills are superior.

[oldgringo]

santos is a solid fighter and is so under rated. margartio looked awsome against cintron but in his fight with santos not so much. santos was leading at the time of the stoppage on two of the three scorecards. santos beat margarito fair and square.

mab is above morales cause he won there last fight and is 2-1 against him. i cant rate morales higher than mab for the simple fact that the two have fought three times and marco walked out of the ring twice with the victory.

jlc imo is the better fighter and was winning that fight until chico landed a miracle bomb that staggered jlc. jlc also faired much better against pbf, chico was blown out and arguably jlc beat pbf.

cory spinks is still a very good fighter, i believe he will be the best at 154 and will prove to everbody he isnt done. so he lost to zab judah that aint a knock on spinks cause when judah is on imo only pbf's skills are superior.

Then:

Santos is a top 20 fighter just because of his one technical decision over Margarito? I don't buy it...

Barrera is above Morales simply because of the fact that he's beaten him twice? By this logic (bear with me), a fighter can lose a fair amount and be dominated by lesser fighters, but then closely beat an elite guy and then be ranked higher than that guy they closely beat twice? I don't buy that either. Morales has only CLOSELY lost to ONE ELITE fighter 2 times in his entire career and has beaten better competition outside of that. He's about to move up to his 4th weight class and will probably win a title there because Corrales is moving up. He's never been knocked out or dominated ever but Barrera has and has recently. I think Barrera should be 2-3 slots behind Morales p4p.

Yes maybe JLC is the better fighter but he LOST and was KOed. Thats like saying, "well the Spurs were better than the Lakers last year so they should be regarded as the better team then." That doesn't work though because they lost and weren't better. Again, Corrales has only ever lost to Mayweather and Casamayor, JLC has lost to Mayweather, Corrales, Soto, Jauregui x2, etc. In no case should you ever be able to lose and get KOed by someone and still be higher on a p4p list IMO, unless it was a fluke KO.

Spinks is still a good fighter I agree with you, but again he lost and was KOed. His other wins previous to that loss haven't been all that impressive and he also has losses to Piccirillo and someone else who I cannnot recall. He doesn't deserve to be there over a Rafa Marquez or a Juan Manuel Marquez. I also think that a fighter like Kassim Ouma will really do a number on Spinks. Cory has nothing for Ouma. A slickster like Spinks wouldn't do very well against an extremely skilled pressure fighter like Ouma IMO. Ouma has great handspeed and is pretty slick himself. He'd eat Cory up after wearing him down with his 100 punches per round...

[The Fix]

Then:

Santos is a top 20 fighter just because of his one technical decision over Margarito? I don't buy it...

Barrera is above Morales simply because of the fact that he's beaten him twice? By this logic (bear with me), a fighter can lose a fair amount and be dominated by lesser fighters, but then closely beat an elite guy and then be ranked higher than that guy they closely beat twice? I don't buy that either. Morales has only CLOSELY lost to ONE ELITE fighter 2 times in his entire career and has beaten better competition outside of that. He's about to move up to his 4th weight class and will probably win a title there because Corrales is moving up. He's never been knocked out or dominated ever but Barrera has and has recently. I think Barrera should be 2-3 slots behind Morales p4p.

Yes maybe JLC is the better fighter but he LOST and was KOed. Thats like saying, "well the Spurs were better than the Lakers last year so they should be regarded as the better team then." That doesn't work though because they lost and weren't better. Again, Corrales has only ever lost to Mayweather and Casamayor, JLC has lost to Mayweather, Corrales, Soto, Jauregui x2, etc. In no case should you ever be able to lose and get KOed by someone and still be higher on a p4p list IMO, unless it was a fluke KO.

Spinks is still a good fighter I agree with you, but again he lost and was KOed. His other wins previous to that loss haven't been all that impressive and he also has losses to Piccirillo and someone else who I cannnot recall. He doesn't deserve to be there over a Rafa Marquez or a Juan Manuel Marquez. I also think that a fighter like Kassim Ouma will really do a number on Spinks. Cory has nothing for Ouma. A slickster like Spinks wouldn't do very well against an extremely skilled pressure fighter like Ouma IMO. Ouma has great handspeed and is pretty slick himself. He'd eat Cory up after wearing him down with his 100 punches per round...

mab recently beat morales PERIOD, why would he be ranked beneath a fighter he recently defeated. i know you'll say "why is pac rated below mab" well because pac lost his last fight and i dont know how he will come back from that. OG you overlook the fact that Mab has beaten morales twice, doesnt that give you an impression as to who is the better fighter. i mean can you ask for better evidence than a head to head record as to see who is the better fighter?

and yes beating margarito does make you a top 20 fighter even if it is by a tech decision.

jlc got stunned by chico by a suprise bomb that chico pulled off after being on the canvas twice and was clearly losing the fight. thats like saying hasim rahman was better than lennox lewis, lewis was clearly winning that fight and was caught by a huge shot from rahman. did you favor rahman in the rematch because he was better than lewis? say yes and you are a liar, everybody knew that lewis was the better fighter. jlc is the better fighter P4P

ouma didnt look great in his last fight and i dont believe he was anywhere near 100 punches per round in that snooze fest. even if ouma did pressure spinks i would think that spinks would counter well just like he did to another "pressure fighter" in ricardo mayorga. remember spinks beat judah who is far and away better than ouma, i dont what would make you favor ouma in a fight with spinks.

[oldgringo]

mab recently beat morales PERIOD, why would he be ranked beneath a fighter he recently defeated. i know you'll say "why is pac rated below mab" well because pac lost his last fight and i dont know how he will come back from that. OG you overlook the fact that Mab has beaten morales twice, doesnt that give you an impression as to who is the better fighter. i mean can you ask for better evidence than a head to head record as to see who is the better fighter?

and yes beating margarito does make you a top 20 fighter even if it is by a tech decision.

jlc got stunned by chico by a suprise bomb that chico pulled off after being on the canvas twice and was clearly losing the fight. thats like saying hasim rahman was better than lennox lewis, lewis was clearly winning that fight and was caught by a huge shot from rahman. did you favor rahman in the rematch because he was better than lewis? say yes and you are a liar, everybody knew that lewis was the better fighter. jlc is the better fighter P4P

ouma didnt look great in his last fight and i dont believe he was anywhere near 100 punches per round in that snooze fest. even if ouma did pressure spinks i would think that spinks would counter well just like he did to another "pressure fighter" in ricardo mayorga. remember spinks beat judah who is far and away better than ouma, i dont what would make you favor ouma in a fight with spinks.

Fix, YOU need to get over this head 2 head thing. Morales has beaten Zaragoza, McCullough, Barrera at 122; Kelley, Chi, Ayala at 126; and Chavez, Hernandez and Pacquiao at 130. He has dominated the guy that kicked Barreras ass twice, and convincingly beat maybe the most dangerous fighter in any weight class (who also dominated Barrera and KOed him). Erik's career outside of this head to head business has been better than Marco's hands down. Morales only takes on top guys (no Fana's and old Ayala's) and is going to make history when he wins a 4th world title at 135. Erik's last 5 fights he's 4-1 with only 1 close MD loss to Barrera. Barrera is also 4-1 but his level of competition in significantly worse than Morales', and he was dominated and KOed in that 1 loss. If this info doesn't change your mind then nothing will though, just hold on to that "head 2 head" argument for dear life.

So if some bum off the street with a somewhat padded record who got blasted out by Kofi Jantuah in 3 rounds came in and beat Maragarito next week by way of technical decision they'd be a top 20 fighter? That's basically what you're saying because Santos hasn't done **** outside of that one awful fight with AM and his win over the old ass, overrated Yory-Boy Campas.

That Lewis/Rahman argument is way off and doesnt apply here. We're talking about 2 elite fighters here...not 1 big time champion and 1 severe underdog with a good right hand. Castillo/Corrales was pretty damned even and these guys were the 2 big dogs in their division. This isn't a case where Castillo is just so much better than Corrales that everyone can still say that Castillo's better after he lost and was KOed like it was some lucky punch fluke. Corrales has beaten Casamayor, Freitas, and now JLC right in a row. JLC had a nice run going before the loss, but a loss is a loss and you should still be bumped down below the other p4p guy that beat you. You're also contradicting yourself with the whole head to head argument here. By your Barrera/Morales logic, Corrales SHOULD in fact be ranked higher than Castillo.

Don't compare Ouma to Mayorga please. Ouma ain't some mindless slugger who just comes and throws bombs and intimidates his opponents. Ouma has fast hands, has maybe THE highest workrate in the game right now, is one of the 3-4 best in-fighters in the game, has a great chin, throws punches in combination from all angles behind the jab, and is a pretty good defensive fighter himself. His "snoozefest" win over a good fighter in Kofi Jantuah was such a "snoozefest" because he shut out and thoroughly dominated him (by the way, what does that say about your top 20 fighter in Santos who was blasted out by Jantuah in 3 rounds?) Cory isn't active enough to rack up points on Ouma, he doesn't have the power to keep Ouma off of him, and Ouma has more than enough stamina to hang with Cory for the full 12. Kassim would slaughter Spinks at this stage of the game.

[MAXWELL_]

Now this is where things get interesting. Everytime a top fighter loses, all these media guys bump the opponent way up. Do you remember Tarver going into the top 5 and some places even higher like 3 or 2? Now where will the media and fans put Hatton after beating a guy who everyone had top 5, most had top 3, and some had #1? I think they wont give Hatton his respect.

Roy Jones looked completely washed up but no one was willing to admit it and they said that Tarver beat the best. Now Tszyu didnt looked washed up but watch how they try to make every excuse for him and thats why they wont move Hatton high.

Here is my list

1)Hopkins
2)Mayweather
3)Wright
4)Chico
5)Hatton
6)Castillo
7)R. Marquez
8)Zab
9)Morales
10)Toney
11)Ouma
12)MAB/Pac

i know what you mean... my take is that tszyu got out brawled with some help from hattons man pariss.tszyu hasn't fought a brawler in years. thought him and his corner could neutralize hattons one dimentional ways but i was wrong. hatton shouldnt be moved up in pfp rateing.mayorga wasnt after he fought forrest.now if he wins a cleaner fight against a corrales or castillo i'll reconsider.

[J !]

hatotn roughted zoo up and fruistateed him. he was relentless and did what he nedded to win.

you dont become p4p with one big fight.

If hatotn took on and beat another big name (corales / gatti / cotto / mayweather) and depending on who it was and won, then we can definitely talk p4p.

but not yet.


He will be tho, blokes a ****ing class act in and outside the ring.

[Manny_P]

hatotn roughted zoo up and fruistateed him. he was relentless and did what he nedded to win.

you dont become p4p with one big fight.

If hatotn took on and beat another big name (corales / gatti / cotto / mayweather) and depending on who it was and won, then we can definitely talk p4p.

but not yet.


He will be tho, blokes a ****ing class act in and outside the ring.

but this question comes back again.




Where would you put Taylor (p4p rank) if he happens to beat B-Hop convincingly?

[J !]

same rule applies i dont.
but if he beat winky after that then i would.

[Manny_P]

same rule applies i dont.
but if he beat winky after that then i would.

you woulnt put Taylor in the P4P list??? You crazy!

[J !]

why is that crazy, tarver was in the p4p list cos he beat roy jones by your reckoning then hatton must be p4p now then.

niether hatotn nor taylor should be ranked p4p based on one world class win.

whats crazy about that.