If Hopkins Beat Jones Jr and then Beat David Haye, Would he a top 10 ATG?

[JAB5239]

in boxing seeing is believing.i dont rate guys highly who there isnt much video of and have dubious records.lets take willie pep for instance.guy fought damn near 240 fights.you cant convince me that 230 of those guys were solid opponents.bert sugar would hav us believe pep won a round witout throwin a punch.yeah ****in right.i watched that documentary of pep on espn an that was finally debunked thank god.pep would get mauled if he were fighting today.same with jack johnson or joe louis.if your gonna call somebody the best to do it,then he should be able to beat anybody from any era.

when talking of bernard hopkins,i cant see any middleweight dominating this guy in his prime.i could see him beating every great middle.not sayin that he would,but its not a strecth of the imagination.being arguably the best mw of all time should definitely get you a spot inside the top 10

First off, he's not the best middleweight of all time. Second, you're basing how you rank fighters on imaginary fantasy fights and not what they've actually accomplished? Just brilliant!!!

As far as Pep goes.....you're just plain ignorant. Nobody claims he fought 230 top fighters. But he fought at least 30 and probably more top 10 fighters, many of them multiple time. Because YOU don't know who they were doesn't mean they weren't excellent fighters. Maybe you should do a little homework before blurting out something as ****** as Hopkins would be a top 10 or even 5 fighter of all time. Many fighters with WAY better resumes than Nard.

[street bully]

If he beats Roy Jones Jr?


If he beats David Haye?

Hopkins beats both.

[Parody]

Hopkins has fought EVERYBODY who was in his way everybody during his reign, at both middleweight at light heavyweight. He is 45 now and doesn't give a **** about titles anymore, give it a rest.

I never said he didn't, he fought whoever was in his way but its more about who you beat. Most of his best wins were smaller fighters, some of the fighters were his size and he beat them and some werent and he lost fair enough.

At the age of 45 im not complaining about him facing a Klitschko, that would be unfair or a prime Dawson who has been calling him out for time, he can chose who he wants to fight for all I care, this thread is about the rating Hopkins in the top 10 ATG if he beats a dead corpse or someone who has yet to establish himself as a HW champion.

The RJJ win means nothing at this point and everyone knows it here, the Haye win means something but Haye isnt established and only won the title in his last fight, People dont rate David Haye in the top 100 ATG right now.

All Im saying if Hopkins want to be rated in the top ATG rankings in top 10-30 he has to either beat a Prime HOF Fighter HIS own size (Something he has never done) or fight a Prime Fighter rated #1 in a division who is his size or bigger than him (He did that vs Tarver and I give him credit for that, that win actually moved him up for me IMO, but he could have done it against a Young guy like Dawson who beat Tarver twice)

[r.burgundy]

First off, he's not the best middleweight of all time. Second, you're basing how you rank fighters on imaginary fantasy fights and not what they've actually accomplished? Just brilliant!!!

As far as Pep goes.....you're just plain ignorant. Nobody claims he fought 230 top fighters. But he fought at least 30 and probably more top 10 fighters, many of them multiple time. Because YOU don't know who they were doesn't mean they weren't excellent fighters. Maybe you should do a little homework before blurting out something as ****** as Hopkins would be a top 10 or even 5 fighter of all time. Many fighters with WAY better resumes than Nard.

i said arguably.which he is.i wouldnt make him an underdog against any mw.

what they accomplish relates directly to whom they accomplished it against.for instance,roy is the only fighter in compubox to not hav a punch land on him against vinny pazienza.20 years from now somebody could say"well jones was a genious defensivly,he fought a fight and didnt get hit".well ive seen vinny,and that was no accomplishment worth braggin over.

no im not ignorant on pep.your ignorant.ive seen majority of footage of him.im not impressed.sorry.to say he is top 5 and fought 30 good oponents is pure comedy.and its comedy cause your so quick to take somebodys word for who was good.,out of those 30 you claim are good,how many have you seen????

[JAB5239]

i said arguably.which he is.i wouldnt make him an underdog against any mw.

what they accomplish relates directly to whom they accomplished it against.for instance,roy is the only fighter in compubox to not hav a punch land on him against vinny pazienza.20 years from now somebody could say"well jones was a genious defensivly,he fought a fight and didnt get hit".well ive seen vinny,and that was no accomplishment worth braggin over.

no im not ignorant on pep.your ignorant.ive seen majority of footage of him.im not impressed.sorry.to say he is top 5 and fought 30 good oponents is pure comedy.and its comedy cause your so quick to take somebodys word for who was good.,out of those 30 you claim are good,how many have you seen????

Anyone who is not impressed with Pep doesn't know boxing and has more than likely never stepped foot in a ring.

I don't know everybody on Peps resume and where they were ranked, but I would bet all my points and any sig preference that Im pretty close with my number. If you like to bet we can ask Hhascup, who posts here and is on the boxrec staff as well as the selection committee for the IBHOF and IRBO. Care to make a wager?

As far as the fighters he fought that I've seen?

Saddler
Famachon
Bassey
DeMarco
Graves
Bartolo
Wilson
Ortiz
Angott

There are a few I think I've seen but can't be certain.

[r.burgundy]

Anyone who is not impressed with Pep doesn't know boxing and has more than likely never stepped foot in a ring.


I don't know everybody on Peps resume and where they were ranked, but I would bet all my points and any sig preference that Im pretty close with my number. If you like to bet we can ask Hhascup, who posts here and is on the boxrec staff as well as the selection committee for the IBHOF and IRBO. Care to make a wager?

As far as the fighters he fought that I've seen?

Saddler
Famachon
Bassey
DeMarco
Graves
Bartolo
Wilson
Ortiz
Angott

There are a few I think I've seen but can't be certain.

that depends on what you find impressive.ali once joked that "joe louis had the bum of the month club" but ive always been amazed by louis accuracy.pep just did absolutely nothing impressive,or nothing impressive that would be impressive by todays standard.now billy conn,hes an old fighter and he was amazing defensivly.i think he invented the shoulder roll.so its not just a thing with old fighters,but boxing fans have a hard time facing facts.boxing evolves just like any other sport.we are in an era of some truly magnificent,physically gfted fighters who go under appreciated

ive seen famechon,walton an saddler.i think both famechon an saddler were better even though pep beat both of them

wager on what?

[JAB5239]

that depends on what you find impressive.ali once joked that "joe louis had the bum of the month club" but ive always been amazed by louis accuracy.pep just did absolutely nothing impressive,or nothing impressive that would be impressive by todays standard.now billy conn,hes an old fighter and he was amazing defensivly.i think he invented the shoulder roll.so its not just a thing with old fighters,but boxing fans have a hard time facing facts.boxing evolves just like any other sport.we are in an era of some truly magnificent,physically gfted fighters who go under appreciated

ive seen famechon,walton an saddler.i think both famechon an saddler were better even though pep beat both of them

2 questions. First, how much of Pep have you watched, which fights? Second....Conn is one of my favorites, I've read extensively about him. But I am unaware of any footage besides the Louis fight and 1 other (can't remember which one at the moment). What fights of his have you seen besides these to come to the conclusion Conn was a better defensive fighter than Pep?

wager on what?

A wager on whether or not I am very close to how many top 10 fighters Pep fought in his career. We could PM Hhascup, Im sure he wouldn't mind helping us out and he certainly has the credential to do so.

[r.burgundy]

A wager on whether or not I am very close to how many top 10 fighters Pep fought in his career. We could PM Hhascup, Im sure he wouldn't mind helping us out and he certainly has the credential to do so.

you mean top 10 for their division?im sure pep has fought all of them but that isnt sayin much.the klits have cleaned out the heavyweight division thoroghly yet nobody is placing them in top 10 atg lists.why?because they say the division sucks and all these guys are bums and they couldnt beat tyson,or ali etc etc.anytime your dealing with atg list,its always gonna come down to fantasy matchups.and from what ive seen of pep,he wouldnt have the firepower to compete with featherweights of today

[JAB5239]

you mean top 10 for their division?im sure pep has fought all of them but that isnt sayin much.the klits have cleaned out the heavyweight division thoroghly yet nobody is placing them in top 10 atg lists.why?because they say the division sucks and all these guys are bums and they couldnt beat tyson,or ali etc etc.anytime your dealing with atg list,its always gonna come down to fantasy matchups.and from what ive seen of pep,he wouldnt have the firepower to compete with featherweights of today

Come on Ron, are you trying to tell me that beating 25, 30 or whatever the number is top 10 fighters isn't impressive?

Big difference between fat, out of shape heavyweights who fight nobodies and get title shots compared to fighters who were forced to fight other top fighters to get a ranking because their was only one title. And if Pep fought them all...that IS saying a lot.

Im still curious about the question I asked about Conn.

[Khmelnytsky]

You being serious? If he beats Jones Jr and Haye, he's easily a lock for top 25 surely........

god no,,,,,,